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Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME
From: |
Rogelio M. Serrano Jr. |
Subject: |
Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME |
Date: |
Sun, 27 Nov 2005 01:20:11 +0800 |
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On 2005-11-27 00:34:58 +0800 Richard Frith-Macdonald
<richard@brainstorm.co.uk> wrote:
On 26 Nov 2005, at 15:27, Nicolas Roard wrote:
On 11/26/05, Rogelio M. Serrano Jr. <rogelio@smsglobal.net> wrote:
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On 2005-11-26 14:22:25 +0800 Thom Cherryhomes
<thom.cherryhomes@gmail.com> wrote:
it is worth noting that YES, a colour change would go part of the
way
to avoid the clash, but it doesn't solve some of the
(1) the BIG APPICON THAT DOESN'T FIT ANYWHERE
Of course its not intended to live in a taskbar nor is it aware of
taskbars. Its meant to be big so you see it. a lot of small icons in
taskbar can become confusing. Same as the windows taskbar with 20
small icons. I just cant find what im looking for.
The point is, it's perfectly fine if you're running WindowMaker,
but it
should disappear in *any* other situation / window managers / desktop
For example, I'm using a "gnustep" desktop, but at the moment I use
Metacity + GWorkspace + GWorkspace shelf. Damn, huge stupid icons
clashing with my "OPENSTEP 4" setup.. :-)
I dont know how that looks like. I think at somepoint next was
thinking of using a "shelf". I like the next appicon style more
though.
Of course that's the same problem if you want to run a GNUstep app
(say, GNUMail) within KDE or GNOME.
Basically, the appicon should disappear with other windowmanagers.
I think you should have the OPTION of having the app icon disappear
(actually, I thought you already did ... but perhaps it's gone or
doesn't
work reliably). I don't believe it should do it by default ... the
icon is
too useful for that.
I also think it would be nice to have an app which would manage
appicons
(sort of like a dock ... a panel containing the appicons of all
running
gnustep apps and allowing you to organize/manage them when running
in a
gnustep-hostile window manager).
I don't know if you have used the windows backend recently, but it
now pops
up an alert panel the first time you use an app, which asks whether
you want
to use GNUstep/NeXTstep style window borders and appicons or native
window
borders and the taskbar. This then sets user defaults accordingly
(and
doesn't ask again unless you remove the user defaults). It also
inserts
something in the standard info panel to let you call up this option
again if
you change your mind.
To my mind, this is a thoroughly good thing ... and should probably
be done
by the X backends too.
It keeps the standard default look and feel.
It lets you easily change to work with the 'native' environment
it doesn't keep intruding once you have set things up
It's easy to change your mind later
- first, people trying GNUstep apps will likely do it first in their
usual environment;
if GNUstep apps play well with it, it can be an incentive for them to
really try
a GNUstep desktop (if they don't play well, it'll be more "hm, not
really interesting, move on, nothing to see")
- second, even you are probably running other X11 apps (mozilla,
firefox.. ?) within your GNUstep desktop; better integration will
help.. and if we provide *good* apps (imho what we should try to
harvest, that's another thing that bring users ;-) it's likely that a
sizeable fraction of people will want to run them alongside their
normal desktop, and won't want to switch completely to WindowMaker --
eg just for run GNUMail, even if GNUMail is excellent... and more
GNUstep apps used overall will improve our situation, even if they
aren't run "within a gnustep desktop"
more i think about it... yeah i can agree thats a good thing.
- third, we *NEED* the integration anyway, because I don't think
you can
actually achieve anything on GNUstep/Windows if those integration
problems aren't
fixed -- it will be difficult to convaince all Windows users to
switch
to a GNUstep desktop, don't you think ? And fixing those on Windows
(ie providing the right
options / hooks) will help (or will solve) the possible integration
problems with KDE/GNOME.
Yes ... but I suspect people are worried and overreact to the
suggestions of
changing things ... of course we DON'T want to change things to
remove all
that's good about the NEXT designed GUI, but that's what it often
sounds
like when people start complaining about lack of 'integration' with
a
'native' interface.
Yup thats why im wary of the "portability thing". Native look is
already too much portability.
This is why I'm concerned that we should -
1. keep the current interface as default
2. provide themes for the other interfaces
3. make switching VERY easy
4. try to make things interoperate as well as possible even when we
are not
using themes to make things match.
Portability just cant be ignored. I think i have to pause do a bit of
backtracking.
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- Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME, (continued)
- Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME, Richard Frith-Macdonald, 2005/11/26
- Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME, Nicolas Roard, 2005/11/26
- Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME, Helge Hess, 2005/11/26
- Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME, Sašo Kiselkov, 2005/11/30
- Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME, Marc Brünink, 2005/11/30
- Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME, Pete French, 2005/11/30
- Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME, Helge Hess, 2005/11/30
- Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME, Helge Hess, 2005/11/30
- Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME, Richard Frith-Macdonald, 2005/11/26
- Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME, Sheldon Gill, 2005/11/26
- Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME,
Rogelio M. Serrano Jr. <=
Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME, Sašo Kiselkov, 2005/11/26
Message not available
Re: Clash of the Titans, GNUstep alongside GNOME, David Wetzel, 2005/11/30