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Re: running make

From: mcgurme
Subject: Re: running make
Date: 5 Sep 2006 07:13:10 -0700
User-agent: G2/0.2


You are just wrong to call someone "not clever".

Did you consider:
- If someone installs a "standard" unix, such as Ubuntu, that most of
the libraries for Gnustep are missing?
- Getting all these standard libraries installed is a pain in the rear?
 It takes time and experience

That's the whole point.  There's NOT just one trivial step like "make
sure to source GNUStep.sh".  It's more like "make sure that you do X
then Y then Z then XX then YY then ZZ then if you did everything
exactly right it might work, otherwise, start over".

And don't start in that I don't know what I'm doing.  I presently have
five different Gnustep installations on all variety of Linuxen.  But
it's still not trivial to make new ones.  It is different for every
environment, and quite finicky as to the versions of each library
installed.  If it is so easy, then please provide me with your clever
list of steps to get the full Gnustep running on OS X.  Trivial, right?

And that's the point.  The reason Gnustep doesn't have more users is
1. It has too much overhead to install and get running, but more
2. People such as yourself scare new users off with a bad attitude that
someone is not clever if he or she can't win the world speed record for
Gnustep installation.

I personally think Gnustep is great, and have made contributions where
I can.  I will continue to support the effort.  But attitudes like you
are displaying here are doing absolutely zero to promote the cause.


Riccardo wrote:
> Hey,
> On Monday, September 4, 2006, at 01:21 AM, phil taylor wrote:
> > And if GNUstep is supposed to make it easy to develop applications, I
> > would like them to define "easy"! EVen just installing the environment
> > is a pig. I was able to install SmartEiffel and write a small trial
> > program in the time it took me to work out how to get "make" to run for
> > GNUstep. And even using SMartEiffel is hardly easy either.
> let me say that. I'm a bit sick of reading these difficulties. I will
> offend you in the next sentence, thus skip it if you don't feel like
> reading it. You aren't very clever probably.
> Really, gnustep may not be the most user firendly things, but there is
> just one thing to remember "source your GNUstep.sh" script. It is
> written everywhere. The configure even rememebrs you of doing that. So
> please stop this crap. it is useless.
> ON any reasonable operating system, may it be linux or some netbsd, you
> need a couple of requirements, which are clearly stated and which are,
> by the way, usually already present. Maybe you need the developer
> headers. All this is in any case stated in the documentation, the guide
> or can be just read out from the configure failures.
> inside make:
> ./configure && make && make install
> then source GNUstep.sh or GNUstep.csh
> inside base, gui and subsequently back, do:
> ./configure && make && make install
> I think this is pretty easy, consistent and similar to many other
> frameworks.
> Then just do "make && make install" inside ProjectCenter and Gorm.
> if you really want to be sure about things, now run "make_services" to
> be able to use gopen and automatic document tyep associations. You are
> set up. Ready.
> gopen ProjectCenter.app  or  openapp ProjectCenter will launch your IDE.
> Make your classes, your applications, build, run, be happy. Stop
> complaining. Really.
> Criticism is a good thing. Discussion another. But continuing to repeat
> the same false statement is not.
> This same procedure should work pretty well on Solaris too. Heck, it
> worked even inside the mingwm environment under windows to update it!
> (apart that I disabled libxml).
> If you have other problems they might be a peculiar installation, some
> missing dependency or a less-standard OS, where the bugs are outisde of
> our scope but unofficial fixes float (like NetBSD/sparc has big ffcall
> configuration troubles or OpenBSD/sparc has a PNG tweak). Otherwise you
> might have encountered a real error and in that case report it here
> and/or file a bug report. But ranting is of no use for gnustep.
> Thank you.
>     Riccardo

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