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Re: GNUstep theming (was Re: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in L

From: markjoel60
Subject: Re: GNUstep theming (was Re: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:14:27 -0800 (PST)

I wanted to jump in on a couple of these points...

>>Here is a key question you need to be able to answer: why would  
>>anyone want develop on GnuStep, rather than Mac OS X? Where is your  
>>competitive advantage?

Not sure this is the right way to ask this, since GNUStep is not an OS. The
question really is why would someone use GNUStep instead of Cocoa... and the
answer is, if they're Mac programmers, they probably wouldn't. If they want
portability, then it is a different story...

>>Niches you could potentially appeal to:
>>1) former NeXT users
>>2) technical / mathematical users (as NeXTStep)
>>3) Apple is not terribly solid and reliable. If you can be more solid/ 

Wow... if that's the full list, then GNUStep is dead. #1 is no good because
most former NeXT users have moved on. Even if ALL of them wanted to come
back, there wasn't enough of them the first time around to guarantee

#2 is far too niche, and there are many other products in that space

#3 Hmmm... I know a lot of people who would challenge you on that, and
anyway the thought that an open source project with EXTREMELY limited
resources could out perform all of Apple is a stretch.

To my mind, there are two groups that could (together) propel GNUStep to the
next level: RAD programmers who want to build prototypes and proof of
concepts, and people who want to have a product for Windows, *Nix, and Mac
OS. But, for both of those groups, work needs to be done.

>>#1: you need a simple way of installing GnuStep. I've only ever used  
>>GnuStep off a live CD; 

I completely agree with this...

>>#2: (i) more development frameworks. (ii) Reliable/bullet-proof/ 
>>debugged frameworks. (iii) Faster/optimized frameworks.

Sure, but I wouldn't put it so high a priority... If I understand your
previous points, you want to see more converts? Well the new developer
doesn't understand the need for the frameworks already in place... why
impress them with even more? I think it is far more important to make the
current frameworks A) bulletproof and B) Demonstrate their capabilities in
demonstrations and documents. 

>>#3: applications. How about:


>>     - to appeal to mathematical/technical market:

But, I guess everyone has a favorite, right? The point is that the GNUStep
team really can't be, and shouldn't be, responsible for the apps. That's our
job as the community. The thing the Team who are working so hard on this
(usually in spare hours) should worry about is the base set of
functionality, usability of it, and documenting it so others can understand

Killer Apps should follow as matter of course.

>>#4: how about producing an install DVD which formats a PC's disk and  
>>automatically installs a GnuStep/Linux distribution?

Yikes! Whatever for? GNUStep does not replace an OS! What would you run if
windows was gone? As for manufacturing deals, Ubuntu recently got a deal
with Dell... GNUStep has a very long way to go to hit those kind of numbers.
And Dell has said it doubts it will ever sell an Ubuntu install as it is... 

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