Re: gnustep compiled with clang and gworkspace problem

[David Chisnall]

Can you test with libobjc2 svn?  That test should pass with 1.6 (which is 
probably due a release about now), but it is an expected fail with 1.5.1.  It 
was added because someone recently pointed out that Apple libobjc does inherit 
+initialize and, even though it is weird, we should do the same because some 
people seem to rely on it...

David

On 4 Oct 2011, at 17:04, Sebastian Reitenbach wrote:

> Here the test results for -base and -gui compiled with clang 3.0 and libobjc2 
> 1.5.1:
> 
> base:
> 6528 Passed tests
>  7 Dashed hopes
>  1 Failed test
> 
> The failed test is the following:
> Testing initialize.m...
> Running gnustep-base-1.23.1/Tests/base/NSObject/initialize.m...
> Start set:       initialize.m:128 ... +initialize
> Passed test:       initialize.m:133 ... initialize test starts
> Failed test:       initialize.m:139 ... inherited +initialize is called 
> automatically
> Passed test:       initialize.m:50 ... Superclass +initialize called before 
> subclass
> Passed test:       initialize.m:79 ... First initialize method did not finish 
> too early
> Passed test:       initialize.m:85 ... +initialize called exactly once
> Passed test:       initialize.m:86 ... +initialize completed before another 
> method started
> Passed test:       initialize.m:85 ... +initialize called exactly once
> Passed test:       initialize.m:86 ... +initialize completed before another 
> method started
> End set:         initialize.m:164 ... +initialize
> Completed file:  initialize.m
> 
> 
> gui:
> 
> 737 Passed tests
>  5 Failed tests
> 
> The 5 failed tests are the same that failed with just only using clang or gcc.
> 
> Sebastian
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:40 CEST, "Sebastian Reitenbach" 
> <sebastia@l00-bugdead-prods.de> wrote: 
> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:05 CEST, David Chisnall <theraven@sucs.org> 
>> wrote: 
>> 
>>> So, do you have tests that pass with gcc but fail with clang?
>> 
>> for -base, there is this failed build, which works with gcc,
>> 
>> CLANG:
>> 6436 Passed tests
>> 17 Dashed hopes
>>  1 Skipped set
>>  1 Failed test
>>  1 Failed file
>>  1 Failed build
>> 
>> GCC:
>> 6428 Passed tests
>> 17 Dashed hopes
>> 1 Skipped set
>> 1 Failed test
>> 1 Failed file
>> 
>> with gcc, it just doesn't run all the tests it runs with CLANG, but that is 
>> I guess due to the failed build.
>> I used gcc-4.2.1 that comes with OpenBSD base installation.
>> 
>> for -gui it looks like this:
>> 
>> CLANG:
>> 737 Passed tests
>>  5 Failed tests
>> 
>> 
>> GCC:
>> 773 Passed tests     <- since I did not cut n pasted, I may have accidently 
>> mixed up the last 7 and 3 I guess
>> 5 Failed tests
>> 
>> the 5 failed tests are the same. And the test that Fred says should not 
>> fail, has the same output: NSView_autoresize_and_rounding.m
>> 
>> so its pretty much the same.
>> Sebastian
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> David
>>> 
>>> On 4 Oct 2011, at 10:03, Sebastian Reitenbach wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> this is just to confirm, the numbers of the test results are not different 
>>>> whether using clang 2.9 or svn a.k.a 3.0.
>>>> The only difference is that with gui I now have:
>>>> 737 Passed tests
>>>> 5 Failed tests
>>>> but this is due to the lazy copy test, which failed with clang 2.9 because 
>>>> of not started gpbs.
>>>> 
>>>> Now I'll recompile with clang and libobjc2, test results will follow.
>>>> 
>>>> Sebastian
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tuesday, October 4, 2011 09:44 CEST, "Sebastian Reitenbach" 
>>>> <sebastia@l00-bugdead-prods.de> wrote: 
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> here the gnustep-tests results from base and gui, compiled with clang 2.9.
>>>>> clang 3.0 is also ready, these are just for reference and for comparison.
>>>>> looks fairly similar to what gcc produced. One build failure of a -base 
>>>>> test 
>>>>> is strange, this did not happen with gcc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I was using the same svn revision like I did with gcc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here the relevant parts of the -base tests:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 6436 Passed tests
>>>>> 17 Dashed hopes
>>>>> 1 Skipped set
>>>>> 1 Failed test
>>>>> 1 Failed file
>>>>> 1 Failed build
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Testing initialize.m...
>>>>> Running gnustep-base-1.23.1/Tests/base/NSObject/initialize.m...
>>>>> Start set:       initialize.m:128 ... +initialize
>>>>> Passed test:       initialize.m:133 ... initialize test starts
>>>>> Failed test:       initialize.m:139 ... inherited +initialize is called 
>>>>> automatically
>>>>> 2011-10-04 09:05:13.022 initialize[17875] WARNING your program is 
>>>>> becoming multi-threaded, but you are using an ObjectiveC runtime library 
>>>>> which does not have a thre
>>>>> ad-safe implementation of the +initialize method. Please see 
>>>>> README.initialize for more information.
>>>>> Terminated
>>>>> Failed file:     initialize.m aborted without running all tests!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> GNU gdb 6.3
>>>>> Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
>>>>> GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you 
>>>>> are
>>>>> welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain 
>>>>> conditions.
>>>>> Type "show copying" to see the conditions.
>>>>> There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type "show warranty" for 
>>>>> details.
>>>>> This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-openbsd5.0"...
>>>>> Breakpoint 1 at 0x1c0046e0: file Testing.h, line 149.
>>>>> (gdb) break -[NSException raise]
>>>>> Function "-[NSException raise]" not defined.
>>>>> Make breakpoint pending on future shared library load? (y or [n]) y
>>>>> Breakpoint 2 (-[NSException raise]) pending.
>>>>> (gdb) r
>>>>> Starting program: 
>>>>> /home/ports/pobj/gnustep-base-1.23.1/gnustep-base-1.23.1/Tests/base/NSObject/obj/initialize
>>>>>  
>>>>> Breakpoint 3 at 0x1004101: file NSException.m, line 956.
>>>>> Pending breakpoint "-[NSException raise]" resolved
>>>>> Start set:       initialize.m:128 ... +initialize
>>>>> Passed test:       initialize.m:133 ... initialize test starts
>>>>> [Switching to process 21264, thread 0x8b735000]
>>>>> 
>>>>> Breakpoint 1, testStart () at Testing.h:149
>>>>> 149     }
>>>>> Current language:  auto; currently minimal
>>>>> (gdb) bt
>>>>> #0  testStart () at Testing.h:149
>>>>> #1  0x1c003488 in gnustep_base_user_main () at initialize.m:139
>>>>> #2  0x010ca627 in main (argc=1, argv=0xcfbd7734, env=0xcfbd773c) at 
>>>>> NSProcessInfo.m:979
>>>>> #3  0x1c0015d7 in ___start ()
>>>>> #4  0x1c001552 in _start ()
>>>>> (gdb) c
>>>>> Continuing.
>>>>> Failed test:       initialize.m:139 ... inherited +initialize is called 
>>>>> automatically
>>>>> 2011-10-04 08:58:31.700 initialize[21264] WARNING your program is 
>>>>> becoming multi-threaded, but you are using an ObjectiveC runtime library 
>>>>> which does not have a thread-safe implementation of the +initialize 
>>>>> method. Please see README.initialize for more information.
>>>>> [New process 21264]
>>>>> ^C
>>>>> Program received signal SIGINT, Interrupt.
>>>>> [Switching to process 21264]
>>>>> 0x0c6d9379 in poll () from /usr/lib/libc.so.60.1
>>>>> (gdb) Quit
>>>>> (gdb) bt
>>>>> #0  0x0c6d9379 in poll () from /usr/lib/libc.so.60.1
>>>>> #1  0x0d396365 in _thread_kern_poll (wait_reqd=1) at 
>>>>> /usr/src/lib/libpthread/uthread/uthread_kern.c:782
>>>>> #2  0x0d397233 in _thread_kern_sched (scp=0x0) at 
>>>>> /usr/src/lib/libpthread/uthread/uthread_kern.c:383
>>>>> #3  0x0d39775f in _thread_kern_sched_state_unlock (state=PS_COND_WAIT, 
>>>>> lock=0x8978de98, fname=0x2d384e14 
>>>>> "/usr/src/lib/libpthread/uthread/uthread_cond.c", 
>>>>>  lineno=432) at /usr/src/lib/libpthread/uthread/uthread_kern.c:602
>>>>> #4  0x0d393ae7 in pthread_cond_timedwait (cond=0x2d386120, 
>>>>> mutex=0x2d38611c, abstime=0x81e7afc0) at 
>>>>> /usr/src/lib/libpthread/uthread/uthread_cond.c:431
>>>>> #5  0x0d38ebae in _thread_gc (arg=0x0) at 
>>>>> /usr/src/lib/libpthread/uthread/uthread_gc.c:181
>>>>> #6  0x0d38e5ce in _thread_start () at 
>>>>> /usr/src/lib/libpthread/uthread/uthread_create.c:242
>>>>> #7  0x0000002b in ?? ()
>>>>> #8  0x00000000 in ?? ()
>>>>> (gdb) c
>>>>> Continuing.
>>>>> Terminated 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Making all for test_tool propertyAttrs...
>>>>> Linking test_tool propertyAttrs ...
>>>>> /usr/lib/libobjc.so.5.0: warning: strcpy() is almost always misused, 
>>>>> please use strlcpy()
>>>>> /usr/local/lib/libgnustep-base.so.5.0: warning: sprintf() is often 
>>>>> misused, please use snprintf()
>>>>> /usr/local/lib/libgmp.so.9.0: warning: vsprintf() is often misused, 
>>>>> please use vsnprintf()
>>>>> /usr/local/lib/libgnutls.so.18.1: warning: strcat() is almost always 
>>>>> misused, please use strlcat()
>>>>> ./obj/propertyAttrs.obj/propertyAttrs.m.o(.text+0x329): In function 
>>>>> `-[PropertyTest setStructDefault:]':
>>>>> /home/ports/pobj/gnustep-base-1.23.1/gnustep-base-1.23.1/Tests/base/Functions/propertyAttrs.m:56:
>>>>>  undefined reference to `objc_setPropertyStruct'
>>>>> ./obj/propertyAttrs.obj/propertyAttrs.m.o(.text+0x3c9): In function 
>>>>> `-[PropertyTest setTypedefDefault:]':
>>>>> /home/ports/pobj/gnustep-base-1.23.1/gnustep-base-1.23.1/Tests/base/Functions/propertyAttrs.m:57:
>>>>>  undefined reference to `objc_setPropertyStruct'
>>>>> ./obj/propertyAttrs.obj/propertyAttrs.m.o(.text+0x469): In function 
>>>>> `-[PropertyTest setUnionDefault:]':
>>>>> /home/ports/pobj/gnustep-base-1.23.1/gnustep-base-1.23.1/Tests/base/Functions/propertyAttrs.m:58:
>>>>>  undefined reference to `objc_setPropertyStruct'
>>>>> ./obj/propertyAttrs.obj/propertyAttrs.m.o(.text+0x96a): In function 
>>>>> `testProperty':
>>>>> /home/ports/pobj/gnustep-base-1.23.1/gnustep-base-1.23.1/Tests/base/Functions/propertyAttrs.m:106:
>>>>>  undefined reference to `class_getProperty'
>>>>> ./obj/propertyAttrs.obj/propertyAttrs.m.o(.text+0x9d1):/home/ports/pobj/gnustep-base-1.23.1/gnustep-base-1.23.1/Tests/base/Functions/propertyAttrs.m:113:
>>>>>  undefined r
>>>>> eference to `property_getAttributes'
>>>>> ./obj/propertyAttrs.obj/propertyAttrs.m.o(.text+0x9e9):/home/ports/pobj/gnustep-base-1.23.1/gnustep-base-1.23.1/Tests/base/Functions/propertyAttrs.m:114:
>>>>>  undefined r
>>>>> eference to `property_getName'
>>>>> ./obj/propertyAttrs.obj/propertyAttrs.m.o(.text+0xa20):/home/ports/pobj/gnustep-base-1.23.1/gnustep-base-1.23.1/Tests/base/Functions/propertyAttrs.m:115:
>>>>>  undefined r
>>>>> eference to `property_getName'
>>>>> clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see 
>>>>> invocation)
>>>>> gmake[3]: *** [obj/propertyAttrs] Error 1
>>>>> gmake[2]: *** [internal-tool-all_] Error 2
>>>>> gmake[1]: *** [propertyAttrs.all.test-tool.variables] Error 2
>>>>> gmake: *** [propertyAttrs] Error 2
>>>>> Failed build:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> here the relevant parts of the -gui tests:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 736 Passed tests
>>>>> 6 Failed tests
>>>>> 
>>>>> --- Running tests in gnustep-gui-0.21.0/Tests/gui/NSPasteboard ---
>>>>> 
>>>>> gnustep-gui-0.21.0/Tests/gui/NSPasteboard/lazy_copy.m:
>>>>> Failed test:     NSPasteboard handles lazy setting of data
>>>>> GNU gdb 6.3
>>>>> Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
>>>>> GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you 
>>>>> are
>>>>> welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain 
>>>>> conditions.
>>>>> Type "show copying" to see the conditions.
>>>>> There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type "show warranty" for 
>>>>> details.
>>>>> This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-openbsd5.0"...
>>>>> /home/ports/pobj/gnustep-gui-0.21.0/gdb.cmds:1: Error in sourced command 
>>>>> file:
>>>>> Undefined command: "Failed".  Try "help".
>>>>> (gdb) break -[NSException raise]
>>>>> Function "-[NSException raise]" not defined.
>>>>> Make breakpoint pending on future shared library load? (y or [n]) y
>>>>> Breakpoint 1 (-[NSException raise]) pending.
>>>>> (gdb) r
>>>>> Starting program: 
>>>>> /home/ports/pobj/gnustep-gui-0.21.0/gnustep-gui-0.21.0/Tests/gui/NSPasteboard/obj/lazy_copy
>>>>>  
>>>>> Breakpoint 2 at 0x9a65101: file NSException.m, line 956.
>>>>> Pending breakpoint "-[NSException raise]" resolved
>>>>> Passed test:     NSPasteboard handles lazy setting of data
>>>> 
>>>> I guess here I just had not gpbs running initially, and on the second try, 
>>>> it was available, I mean, triggered to start via the test.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> gnustep-gui-0.21.0/Tests/gui/NSSavePanel/setDelegate_reload.m:
>>>>> Failed test:     browser contains all files after resetting delegate
>>>>> GNU gdb 6.3
>>>>> Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
>>>>> GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you 
>>>>> are
>>>>> welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain 
>>>>> conditions.
>>>>> Type "show copying" to see the conditions.
>>>>> There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type "show warranty" for 
>>>>> details.
>>>>> This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-openbsd5.0"...
>>>>> /home/ports/pobj/gnustep-gui-0.21.0/gdb.cmds:1: Error in sourced command 
>>>>> file:
>>>>> Undefined command: "Failed".  Try "help".
>>>>> (gdb) break -[NSException raise]
>>>>> Function "-[NSException raise]" not defined.
>>>>> Make breakpoint pending on future shared library load? (y or [n]) y
>>>>> Breakpoint 1 (-[NSException raise]) pending.
>>>>> (gdb) r
>>>>> Starting program: 
>>>>> /home/ports/pobj/gnustep-gui-0.21.0/gnustep-gui-0.21.0/Tests/gui/NSSavePanel/obj/setDelegate_reload
>>>>>  
>>>>> Breakpoint 2 at 0x8576101: file NSException.m, line 956.
>>>>> Pending breakpoint "-[NSException raise]" resolved
>>>>> 2011-10-04 09:21:30.971 setDelegate_reload[914] XShm not supported, 
>>>>> XShmAttach() failed.
>>>>> 2011-10-04 09:21:30.973 setDelegate_reload[914] Falling back to normal 
>>>>> XImage (will be slower).
>>>>> [New process 914]
>>>>> Passed test:     browser initially contains all files
>>>>> Passed test:     browser is reloaded after -setDelegate:
>>>>> Failed test:     browser contains all files after resetting delegate
>>>>> Passed test:     browser is reloaded after -setDelegate: (2)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Program exited normally.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> gnustep-gui-0.21.0/Tests/gui/NSView/NSView_autoresize_and_rounding.m:
>>>>> Failed test:     NSView autoresizing works
>>>>> Failed test:     NSView autoresize rounding works
>>>>> GNU gdb 6.3
>>>>> Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
>>>>> GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you 
>>>>> are
>>>>> welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain 
>>>>> conditions.
>>>>> Type "show copying" to see the conditions.
>>>>> There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type "show warranty" for 
>>>>> details.
>>>>> This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-openbsd5.0"...
>>>>> /home/ports/pobj/gnustep-gui-0.21.0/gdb.cmds:1: Error in sourced command 
>>>>> file:
>>>>> Undefined command: "Failed".  Try "help".
>>>>> (gdb) break -[NSException raise]
>>>>> Function "-[NSException raise]" not defined.
>>>>> Make breakpoint pending on future shared library load? (y or [n]) y
>>>>> Breakpoint 1 (-[NSException raise]) pending.
>>>>> (gdb) r
>>>>> Starting program: 
>>>>> /home/ports/pobj/gnustep-gui-0.21.0/gnustep-gui-0.21.0/Tests/gui/NSView/obj/NSView_autoresize_and_rounding
>>>>>  
>>>>> Breakpoint 2 at 0xa132101: file NSException.m, line 956.
>>>>> Pending breakpoint "-[NSException raise]" resolved
>>>>> 2011-10-04 09:25:11.121 NSView_autoresize_and_rounding[7781] XShm not 
>>>>> supported, XShmAttach() failed.
>>>>> 2011-10-04 09:25:11.123 NSView_autoresize_and_rounding[7781] Falling back 
>>>>> to normal XImage (will be slower).
>>>>> (1) expected frame (10 10)+(10 10), got (10 10)+(9 10)
>>>>> Failed test:     NSView autoresizing works
>>>>> Passed test:     NSView autoresizing corner cases work
>>>>> (1) expected frame (10 10)+(10 10), got (9 9)+(9 9)
>>>>> Failed test:     NSView autoresize rounding works
>>>>> 
>>>>> Program exited normally.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> gnustep-gui-0.21.0/Tests/gui/NSView/NSView_bounds_scale.m:
>>>>> Failed test:     NSView -scaleUnitSquareToSize works
>>>>> GNU gdb 6.3
>>>>> Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
>>>>> GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you 
>>>>> are
>>>>> welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain 
>>>>> conditions.
>>>>> Type "show copying" to see the conditions.
>>>>> There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type "show warranty" for 
>>>>> details.
>>>>> This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-openbsd5.0"...
>>>>> /home/ports/pobj/gnustep-gui-0.21.0/gdb.cmds:1: Error in sourced command 
>>>>> file:
>>>>> Undefined command: "Failed".  Try "help".
>>>>> (gdb) break -[NSException raise]
>>>>> Function "-[NSException raise]" not defined.
>>>>> Make breakpoint pending on future shared library load? (y or [n]) y
>>>>> Breakpoint 1 (-[NSException raise]) pending.
>>>>> (gdb) r
>>>>> Starting program: 
>>>>> /home/ports/pobj/gnustep-gui-0.21.0/gnustep-gui-0.21.0/Tests/gui/NSView/obj/NSView_bounds_scale
>>>>>  
>>>>> Breakpoint 2 at 0x2ccb101: file NSException.m, line 956.
>>>>> Pending breakpoint "-[NSException raise]" resolved
>>>>> 2011-10-04 09:28:50.611 NSView_bounds_scale[17911] XShm not supported, 
>>>>> XShmAttach() failed.
>>>>> 2011-10-04 09:28:50.613 NSView_bounds_scale[17911] Falling back to normal 
>>>>> XImage (will be slower).
>>>>> expected bounds rotation 30 got 30.9153
>>>>> (2) expected bounds (39.9801 104.211)+(66.2393 85.2544), got (40.372 
>>>>> 105.364)+(66.8473 84.9812)
>>>>> expected bounds matrix (2.93813 0.614059 -1.69633 1.06358 104.31 
>>>>> -131.062) got (2.96586 0.574951 -1.71234 1.07291 104.31 -131.062)
>>>>> (2) expected bounds (39.9801 104.211)+(66.2393 85.2544), got (40.372 
>>>>> 105.364)+(66.8473 84.9812)
>>>>> expected bounds rotation 30 got 30.9153
>>>>> Failed test:     NSView -scaleUnitSquareToSize works
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> gnustep-gui-0.21.0/Tests/gui/NSView/NSView_visibleRect.m:
>>>>> Failed test:     NSView -visibleRect works
>>>>> GNU gdb 6.3
>>>>> Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
>>>>> GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you 
>>>>> are
>>>>> welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain 
>>>>> conditions.
>>>>> Type "show copying" to see the conditions.
>>>>> There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type "show warranty" for 
>>>>> details.
>>>>> This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-openbsd5.0"...
>>>>> /home/ports/pobj/gnustep-gui-0.21.0/gdb.cmds:1: Error in sourced command 
>>>>> file:
>>>>> Undefined command: "Failed".  Try "help".
>>>>> (gdb) 
>>>>> (gdb) break -[NSException raise]
>>>>> Function "-[NSException raise]" not defined.
>>>>> Make breakpoint pending on future shared library load? (y or [n]) y
>>>>> Breakpoint 1 (-[NSException raise]) pending.
>>>>> (gdb) r
>>>>> Starting program: 
>>>>> /home/ports/pobj/gnustep-gui-0.21.0/gnustep-gui-0.21.0/Tests/gui/NSView/obj/NSView_visibleRect
>>>>>  
>>>>> Breakpoint 2 at 0xa337101: file NSException.m, line 956.
>>>>> Pending breakpoint "-[NSException raise]" resolved
>>>>> Failed test:     NSView -visibleRect works
>>>>> 
>>>>> Program exited normally.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Discuss-gnustep mailing list
>>>>> Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org
>>>>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Discuss-gnustep mailing list
>>>> Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org
>>>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
>>> 
>>> --
>>> This email complies with ISO 3103
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss-gnustep mailing list
>> Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- Sent from my brain