Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things...

[Doc O'Leary]

In article <mailman.6930.1385229119.10748.discuss-gnustep@gnu.org>,
 Riccardo Mottola <riccardo.mottola@libero.it> wrote:

> If you have asked, I0d have surely pointed you there.

*Why* should *anybody* have to ask?  What is the point of the website if 
not to direct people to these resources?

> However I conducted a very scientific experiment. I typed "gnustep vm" 
> in the search engines I use most, bing first, google second.
> 
> Guess what? Richard's work pops up as first hit.

Please.  Your thinking is completely misguided here.  The fact is, even 
I am not starting from zero.  The reason I ask for a VM is *not* because 
I couldn't throw it into a search engine, but because gnustep.org 
doesn't *itself* lead new visitors to a best-practices install.  What 
I'm *actually* looking for is an easy way to get GNUstep on a Mac.  I 
*assume* (based on prior Linux experience) it would be via a VM, but 
only because gnustep.org is so damn unhelpful.

> This is quite good, this is how most people look for things, since it is 
> much faster than wading through a website. Wow, it took me about 1 
> second to find that information.

Stop being a jerk.  In trying to deflect the issue, you made my case for 
me.  Yes, gnustep.org is a "wading" experience.  So why not fix it 
rather than trying to insult people who might otherwise be interested in 
GNUstep?

> However to *act* after your *critic* I just gave it a more prominent 
> place on the GS website, direclty in the download page, replacing the T2 
> project entry which looks quite dead and outdated to me and thus doesn't 
> deserve priority space.

Again, it isn't just about having the website barf out the information 
however you please.  It is about thinking what the *visitor* wants and, 
further, how that matches the *actual* state of GNUstep.  For example, 
the Mac download instructions are all of "GNUstep can be installed on 
Mac OS X and darwin using Macports."  But that doesn't tell me 
*anything* about the user experience that will result, or if that really 
is the best way to do it.

The site is just a mishmash of information.  There are no use cases, or 
any sort of higher-level thinking of any kind.  It is a poor way to 
engage a community.

> Criticism is good. But constant bashing is not. If a people just 
> continuously complain, there is nothing that will improve.

If nothing improves, people will continue to complain.  The burden is on 
GNUstep to change.  Especially when it seeks funding via Kickstarter.

> Actually, it 
> will give a bad impression to other people listening (or reading). There 
> must be balance.

No!  Science requires no false balance.  If the *evidence* is that 
things are bad, the "impression" given is well deserved.  Users (and 
especially developers) want the *truth* about GNUstep, not a bunch of 
lies that try to make it look good.

> There is more than just "the official GS site", the web moved forward.

Then the GNUstep web site needs to move forward to reflect that.  
Because, right now, the message it sends is a poor one.  No amount of 
propaganda elsewhere is going to change the evidence.  Start practicing 
computer *science* if you want to move forward.

-- 
iPhone apps that matter:    http://appstore.subsume.com/
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, theremailer.net,
    and probably your server, too.