Re: elementary OS

[Riccardo Mottola]

Hi Liam,

Liam Proven wrote:
> You can keep your patronising, smug and superior "there is no argument
> here". Yes, there*is*  argument here. If I want to buy a house, or a
> car, or a hi-fi, I am perfectly within my rights to criticise the
> design of existing houses, cars or hifis; I do not need to be able to
> build one myself to point out the flaws in existing units.
In fact, a lot of commercial products frustrate me. Few cars are done to 
specs I like... and no commercial OS or Environment is done how I like, 
this is why I work on GS.
> I am a technical writer and journalist, with a sideline in
> consultancy. I test and evaluate computer systems, especially
> software, and write about my discoveries for others to read.
>
> I have tried to install and built GNUstep environments more times than
> I can remember now. I have built them out of Ubuntu packages from the
> Ubuntu  repositories. GS ignores this, but that is how people try out
> Linux desktops in the real world. The result is appalling, barely
> works and crashes every few minutes. It works like an alpha version
> assembled by a couple of amateurs or students in their spare time in a
> few months, not the end result of decades of work.
Sadly I need to agree. I can get GWorkspace on debian crash with two 
mouse clicks. Fine. It took me several nights to figure out that bug, 
fix it and release a new version. I opened a bug report to debian that 
their version is outdated. What should I do more?
I think I did what was in my duties, actually I expanded my duties by 
taking over GWorkspace and saving it from total bit-rot.
Thus, redirect your anger to Debian and Ubuntu.
> I came here to talk about this. I was told I was doing it all wrong
> and that those packages were out of date.
>
> So, I tried again using Philippe Roussel's packages.
>
> I had to throw away my test build and start over 4 times before I got
> it working, using Saucy, Raring, Quantal and finally Precise.
I recently installed GNUstep on "fresh" machines by compiling from 
source. i did that on Debian and on OpenBSD. The effort was relatively 
painless. I configured, when I got a blocking error about a dependency 
either disabled it or installed it. I cycled a couple of times and 
voila, everything was installed and running.

It is not prefect, it is not sooth as it should some integration and 
polish is lacking. But it doesn't crash in your face. So, please, stay 
to the facts and no trolling.
Of course, if you don't want to "follow" what GS standard is but 
configure on your own, then you are on your own. But the stuff works out 
of the box on most linux and BSD systems and even solaris.
> Well, no, that is not how it works. I am not a programmer; I have not
> programmed since the 1980s and do not wish to relearn now.
It's your choice, but you don't need to program if you ant to contribute.
> When I say GNUstep is badly lacking, a useful response is not "well go
> fix it then", it is, "oh dear, tell us more, what needs fixing?"
I have such a long list of stuff to fix and implement, it is not even 
fun. When I seek help, I'm often alone or get help from "always the 
same". Fine... I'll continue without fear.
In any case if you experience something like a reproducible crash, then 
report it here or as a bug report. Less talking, more action.

Riccardo