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Re: Windows theme should be active by default on Windows...

From: Gregory Casamento
Subject: Re: Windows theme should be active by default on Windows...
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 20:24:42 -0500

While we are in this subject one other thing that should be considered is getting rid of the use of the NSIS installer.  It is ancient.  We should switch to MSI.   NSIS is no longer maintained by nullsoft.  I know this because I used to work for them as well when I was with AOL working on the Mac version of Winamp.  

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016, Gregory Casamento <address@hidden> wrote:

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016, Riccardo Mottola <address@hidden> wrote:

On 2016-02-11 00:01:41 +0100 Gregory Casamento <address@hidden> wrote:

I'm wondering why we having heard all of these issues from apps which are
in production with the windows theme... not just production but wide spread
production (e.g. TestPlant).

e.g... the only single example you know.

The most evident fault with refresh can be seen with PopUp buttons and Menus. Several (but not *all* of them, why it is obscure) will not update their selection upon.. slection. SO the user can't really see what he selected. Or, if they work isntead, they are surrounded by an ugly border.
This per se is a blocker. I remember there were other issues, but need to check. Right now I only test the theme, while all users stick with the standard theme in production use.

Fewer people using the Windows theme will not encourage this kind of issue to be fixed.   Also this is not a blocker it is not a showstopper it's an annoyance. 
Perhaps your "wide spread" production user never attempted to have a menu that does not fit on a screen and scroll? With an external monitor or a beamer attached?

Perhaps your "wide spread" production user doesn't make extensive use of tables either.

Take a look at their stuff some day would you?  And I say "wide spread".  By the way I do love how when you want to make little of something you resort to using scare quotes.  Just saying.  

I use the term wide spread because the Windows version from what I am give to understand is much more widely used than the Linux versions and outsells their Mac version. 

If it's so crashy why has none of this been reported?  Additionally, I

The crash is difficult to reproduce, but it is there. I have people working for hours with a certain application. Using the standard theme, it works. Using the WinUX theme at one point (might be one hour or more) it will have issues finding base and gui DLLs, while cliking or even refreshing the use interface. If it weren't wor the extreme usage that the application gets without the Theme, I wouldn't attribute it to WinUX, but it has been proven by difference on different Windows setups, both Win7 and Win8.

I'm not sure I understand your example here.  So we are not using it by default because of a rare and intermittent crash that is hard to reproduce.  Also yet again how will L reduced exposure help this?   The fact of the matter is that we are a small team.  Restricting testing to just us and not allowing our users to use the latest stuff prevents them from providing valuable feedback. 

haven't seen a crash in it.   We already have a solution for in-windows
menus which brings up a default document when the theme is active.

That solution is a palliative and is not generic. Not all application are required to have a "default" document, since that works only for Editors and not viewers.

And we have been discussing alternatives to this for years.  None of us can agree.    I would say the palliative approache we currently have is good enough. 

So.... you're point is!?

Simple: it is nice, it can have its uses, but it is absolutely not ready for prime time. Worse: While the standard theme is out of place it works and provides most features, while the WinUX theme will leave the user with a spotty working interface, thus giving the already spotty GS usage a dent.

Given that I spent countless nights (with kind support of a colleague knowledgeable of windows) to figure out why weren't theming properly on windows7 and window8 in a "true native" way but in some sort of legacy mode (and fixing it), I may qualify as interested. But I can't deploy two specific apps with it in production and e.g. other apps like PRICE and LaternaMagica experience glitches with the WinUX native theme.

If bug fixes will happen, perhaps with the next release. If no fixes, then it stays as is.

I don't agree. I think using the next theme on Windows is worse than using a slightly buggy Windows theme especially if doing so generated more feedback so we can fix the issues.  


Gregory Casamento
GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com

Gregory Casamento
GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com

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