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Re: Questions

From: H. Nikolaus Schaller
Subject: Re: Questions
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 11:07:39 +0100

Hi Greg,

Am 06.03.2016 um 10:51 schrieb Gregory Casamento <address@hidden>:

Dr. Schaller,

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 4:09 AM, H. Nikolaus Schaller <address@hidden> wrote:

> Am 05.03.2016 um 19:31 schrieb Liam Proven <address@hidden>:
> On 1 March 2016 at 20:20, Xavier Brochard <address@hidden> wrote:
>> Oh please, stop abusing yourself.
>> This is not the first complain against your posts.
> I would like to record that I am now receiving personal, off-list,
> abusive messages from Mr O'Leary now, who appears to be trying to
> upset me with personal vitriolic attacks.
> He is failing, but list members of a more sensitive disposition should
> be warned, and I felt that the list moderators should know about this.

I'd suggest to rename this list to cuddle-gnustep ;) And ban every discussion.

​LOL, very funny.   The purpose of the list is, obviously, to foster discussion. (Shall I keep stating the obvious?)   It is not reasonable to expect that everyone will always agree.

Looks as if you didn't follow all the details of the discussions.

Some persons stated that they will leave the list because they don't like discussions.
And the "warning of participants with more sensitive disposition" and indirect call for
moderators I was citing above, is essentially the same direction. To stop discussion...

Hence my pointed proposal :)

What I want is a new open list where free speech is possible and nobody risks
being pilloried because of expressing opinions that a majority does not like
or does not want to hear. Without this openness it is usually driving any
discussion into personal attacks (I don't know who did throw the first stone
this time).

​I do my best not to stop any discussions unless it has legal consequences (as discussed with Maxthon Chan's ban about a year ago regarding decompiled methods from Cocoa).

Yes, this is an obvious situation.

  No one shall ever be banned from this list for having a difference of opinion with anyone.  Abusive behavior is an exception to this, as is following people off list and making personal attacks.​

IMHO personal attacks usually have two opponents. It is sometimes very difficult to find out who did throw the first stone. Some people already see it as a personal attack if their arguments are not listened to. Then, they try to reformulate and put more and more push into being understood. And after a while they are called penetrant etc. which is of course a comment about the person and no longer their intention and they start to defend by addressing the other persons. But who was first? Who is guilty?

I am still interested to find out about the goals (or if there are any) of this project
by following such discussions. And to be able to decide if I should start to invest
more time for this project or even less.

​I think the "mission statement" needs to be clear, but I believe it's enough to say that this project started out as an effort to bring OpenStep to a myriad of platforms.  Now that OpenStep has evolved into Cocoa I believe

GNUstep's mission is extended to one of bringing the ease of Cocoa development to as many platforms as possible.

That is something I can agree with and find it attractive.

  This mission includes the idea of a "porting environment" if we were only that we would not have ProjectCenter and Gorm.

I have been discussing with Ivan the idea of a "reference platform" for GNUstep.  That is to say a platform which is tuned to give the user the best possible experience with the framework.  Think along the lines of NeXTSTEP/Mach or OPENSTEP/Mach vs. OpenStep for Solaris or OpenStep Enterprise for Windows (OSE).

It's not as complex as some are trying to make it.

Gregory Casamento

BR and happy coding,

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