Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register

[Riccardo Mottola]

Hi Marco,

a bit late in the thread... but i left this email to reply in my 
inbox... and then just slipped.

Marco Cawthorne wrote:
> Hello list, I just wanted to represent myself here and my colleagues
> at Vera Visions, L.L.C. that work with GNUstep daily because
> our internal applications rely on it.

Thanks for the interesting words, they offer also a different light on 
what is typically discussed.

> GSDE is a great and exciting project.  Someone I know and myself have
> written to the author in the past about how much we appreciate the
> tweaks he does on WindowMaker. Looking forward to it maturing.

A lot of potential, I am abit worried that it is a mix of forked 
repositories instead of a clear set of patches, but we shall see how it 
evolves. Sometimes things just need to start rolling.

> On a reference environment:
> As we say in the games industry, an engine is unproven without a game
> to go along with it. GNUstep is a lot like that without a desktop 
> environment
> in that it really needs to capture the hearts first and the mind later.
> It's a big set of classes and standard apps aren't enough to test them.
> Case in point: NSFileManager and remote filesystems needs/needed work
> as it would swallow files whole. I haven't verified recent commits in 
> -base,
> but I've seen classes get touched in that regard which gives me hope.

Each application tests a bit of it... we know that during the many years 
of development. Of course many more applications and thus combinations 
of usage can be written. Applications and tools are important because 
the show what we can do, but also test our own stuff.
The sadly stalled SimpleWebKit project, relying on HTML to RTF 
transformation, has stressed the text system immensely and contributed 
to a big improvement in it, even if from the outside world the Kit seems 
insignificant and useless.
Similar words go to other applications like GWorkspace (which is the 
biggest user of NSWorkspace), Gorm and ProjectCenter which use deep 
details of GUI and base, HelpViewer which stresses the text system 
again, being similar to SWK.
GNUMail tests Mac compatibility again and again...

> Users may not appreciate the APIs themselves, but they will appreciate
> the level of consistency throughout the environment as a result of them
> and the devs having to write less code.

They can also offer portability, something which goes beyond a "Desktop 
Environment" and thus I refute restricting GS to a DE.
Being portable e.g. to Windows (where a DE has no reason to exist) and 
largely compatible on Mac, allows to have a tool on up 3 environments, 
where "Unix" may be your Linux Laptop, your BSD Workstation or Solaris 
Server. I do that in fact.
Being able to use certain Tools on Windows can be much appreciated since 
you don't need to look for something compatible, you have "the same".

> On the default look at feel:
> I like the default look, many people I've talked to prefer the NeXT
> style over other attempts because it's simple and consistent.

Nice to hear another word or appreciation. Look is a lot a matter of 
taste and habit and while the "modern UI" camp is very loud (but then 
splits in different sub-camps, Mac-clones, Ubuntu-style, Windows 
mocks...), there is a growing silent camp of people who like the classic 
stuff (also in one of its variation). I saw interest in various groups 
(often BSD people) interested in GS simplicity, or people "pissed off" 
by the latest Mac/GNOME/Windows look changes

> There are also a few former Mac developers around the list which
> have switched to GNUstep so they could keep working in their favorite
> environment, I think that speaks volumes.

It does!


happy stepping,
Riccardo