Re: Consider GtkCore as UI

[Gregory Casamento]

Bruce,

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 10:47 AM bruce <darkoverlordofdata@gmail.com> wrote:

Riccardo, I can agree with everything you say. I’ve looked at pictures of gnustep running on mac and windows, and it looks sleek and modern, and native.

My experience on unix like does not track with that. It looks brutalistic. Not native - it never fits in the desktop. What I hear from most people that have tried it is “the 90’s are calling, they want their desktop back”. I see a big disconnect between the way gnustep looks on mac/windows, and the way it looks on linux/freebsd.

This is, unfortunately, true.  GNUstep is using native widgets on Windows, so it is very likely to look better on that platform.  I, personally, don't mind the 90's look, but then again I have a NeXTstation to my left, so maybe I am not one to provide an unbiased opinion.

Yes, these are all aesthetic value judgements. But aesthetics matter - ask any mac user. I can see if you’re using a business app, ok. But for other users, it is often a non-starter. 

My experience has been:

• Wow this is cool

• Wow this has got a lot of gui glitches

WRITE BUG REPORTS!!! I'm hoping that is sinking in.

 

• Wow this looks old

• Wow this is hard to use

WRITE BUG REPORTS!!! I'm hoping that is sinking in.

 

• Install something else

But I like the language. I’ve been coding c for 40 years, and objc is awesome. I want to code the version with features like arc. Fortunately, the freebsd repo has that version. But the linux repos don’t. That complicates targeting any app. And I want people to use my app. But computer users see these gui issues, and say the app is buggy. I say it’s not my app, it’s the way it presents on your os. So they use another app. So much for platform agnostic. So much for marketability.

GNUstep is platform agnostic from the sense that it is flexible enough to be made to blend in should the developer wish to make that happen.  The community can't take all of the responsibility for making YOUR app fit in everywhere.  Also, it is difficult when we are only a few people working on a large project such as this.   The point is... help us, I know you have told me privately why you feel as though you can't contribute directly, but writing bug reports or even feature requests on github is something you CAN do.

You can help us get there by simply reporting any issues you're seeing in the places I have asked you to do so.

GC

 

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 3:00 PM Riccardo Mottola <riccardo.mottola@libero.it> wrote:

Hi,

bruce wrote:
> I've tried using libobjc2 with the other runtimes from the linux repo. I
> couldn't get it to work, but it sounds like other people have under
> certain circumstances.

Building libobjc2 can be from easy, "just works" to a nightmare,
depending on a platform.

Best, of course, is if it comes ready for your OS.

> Hm, I'll give that a try,.
> But to build a product, I want to know that my users can install it
> without all the monkey business. Otherwise it becomes a support nightmare.

GCC almost always "just works" if the operating system provides it. If
you don't need Obj-C2 features for your app, it is usually a very easy
path and that's why I love it. Except FreeBSD, where you mention
working. THhere the situation is complicated, because GCC provided has
its obj-c runtime removed, supposing you to use libobjc2, which won't
work. SO I abandoned that path, but compiled libobjc2 from sources.

Riccardo

--

Bruce Davidson

--

Gregory Casamento
GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
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12/19/23, 12:35:33 PM