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[Auth](imprtant update on licensing!) A Proposal for a Solution

From: Adam Theo
Subject: [Auth](imprtant update on licensing!) A Proposal for a Solution
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 00:32:03 -0400

if you have read my previous post of similar subject, and worried about
the licensing of the Jabber system, i have some good news:

i should have known this, b/c i have been following licensing for a
whilke now, but the Jabber protocol isn't even licensed. it is a open
protocol, as in anyone, yes, anyone, can impliment it.

the only thing which is JOSL'd and not GPL'd is the Jabelin server,
which is one of two implimentations of the protocol (the other a
proprietary server from the people).

but, this means we all can do what i was proposing in my previous post:
that we use the open jabber protocol as the basis for the dotgnu system
(or part of it, at least), and just do to Jabber what GNU Project did to
UNIX, which was create GPL versions/implimentations of it.

so, folks, please read my last post, which described the benefits of
Jabber, how it is fully distributed, easy to work with, 100% open, and
can easily be P2P.

Adam Theo wrote:
> I have a proposal to make. I have been thinking about this all day, and
> believe I am ready to advocate such a position.
> Before this point I believed DotGNU's best idea was to take the fully
> client-side, P2P route for authentication, since it seemed to 'fit' with
> the GNU philosophy the best. But after some thought and reading the
> recent threads on this list, I have come to believe otherwise.
> I am very active in the development of a system called 'Jabber' (
> ). Jabber is a 100% open source protocol and platform
> (notice I say protocol and platform, not software or product). As an
> entry in the Jabber FAQ says:
> "Jabber is an XML-based, open-source system and protocol for real-time
> messaging and presence notification. The first application of Jabber is
> an instant messaging (IM) system similar to AOL Instant Messenger, ICQ,
> MSN Instant Messenger, or Yahoo! Messenger. However, Jabber is also
> being applied in the realms of wireless communications, embedded
> systems, and Internet infrastructure."
> Jabber FAQ:
> It uses a very distributed client/server tier platform, *very* much like
> the email system (email was the 'eureka!' idea that the founders had in
> mind, i believe in fact). It does this to remove complexity away from
> the client and client developers, and eliminate massive software updates
> when updates come through. However, as the FAQ says:
> "since the Jabber server is relatively small (especially if only
> Jabber-native communications are desired), it can be embedded in devices
> so that each machine has its own Jabber server, thus moving Jabber
> closer to a peer-to-peer model." and "We're also excited about the
> rapidly-evolving peer-to-peer space, and are working to make Jabber more
> of a true peer-to-peer application".
> Also since it is similar to the email system, that means anyone can set
> up a Jabber server of their choice. I in fact have done so under my
> domain name, and hundreds of others have as well.
> No one can even control the naming system, since this follows email as
> well, using the well-known user*host.domain naming convention, instead
> of 'global' names like AIM's 'Adam Theo 2000' or ICQ's '3617306'. So
> no-one controls the naming system of it anymore than they can now.
> You also do not need to worry about the the jabber server not fitting
> your needs, meaning that the Jabber system is the *protocol* not any
> server daemon created by one company or group of people. For example,
> the Jabelin people are working on a Open Source Jabber server (
> ), while is working on a proprietary Jabber
> server to sell to businesses that are skeptical of open source. Both
> implimentations follow the standards and guidelines set up by the newly
> created Jabber Foundation (created using the Apache and GNOME
> Foundations as inspiration).
> The Jabber Foundation is a very open, very flexible organization run by
> the developers, and takes in comments and requests from the users and
> other organizations. You can check it and transcripts of it's meetings
> out at .
> The Jabber protocol heavily uses XML, which as we all know is a truely
> awesome technology (ok, sorry, I'm a little biased. I love XML... :-).
> It's XML implimentation is also very open to other XML specs and
> Schemas, potentially allowing someone to use Jabber to send and recieve
> XML-RPC and SOAP calls (web services over Jabber, anyone?); talk with
> applications on the Internet, not just human users (take a second and
> think of the possibilities); and also any other XML-based communication
> you can think of.
> And for Authentication and Identity for the Jabber system, this is being
> taken care of, as well. By none other than myself and a small group of
> others who are making fast progress on an open, flexible, powerful, and
> very secure Identity system that runs using Jabber. For more information
> on this, head over to .
> Now, if all of you are still skeptical about how Jabber can be used, I
> propose that this list choose one or two people from among us to learn
> about Jabber. Give them a week or so, and have the report back to the
> list on what they think. This way all of us can see how Jabber looks
> from a FSF and DotGNU perspective, without all of us having to learn
> about it.
> The only problem, and I repeat the *only* problem I can see any of you
> having with Jabber is licensing. The Jabber protocol itself is licensed
> undfer the Jabber Open Source License (JOSL), which is BSD and MPL in
> origin. This was decided the best license for their needs at the time
> because they wanted to get businesses and other developers to take up
> the Jabber system. Therefore they allowed proprietary extensions and
> narrowed the definition of 'derivitive work'. This has worked very well
> for the needs so far, and would allow everyone (including everyone here)
> to do what they want with the system.
> However, I can understand the people in this project wanting to use the
> GPL. *hm... thinking...* Ok, here's what I can try. Everyone here please
> take a look at Jabber. Please. Discuss it, maybe try it. Ask questions
> about it to me (maybe even here since I think it is relevent), and I
> will answer them. Then, if it looks like using Jabber is a viable option
> people here really want to see, I'll talk to Jeremie Miller (the head
> hancho and founder) about dual-licensing it under the GPL as well. I
> think that if it would get Jabber used by such a large and ambitious
> project such as DotGNU and GNU itself, then I think I can convince him.
> Now, the Jabelin server may not become GPL'ed. There have been a lot of
> contributors, some of whom may not want the GPL. Howevere, as I said
> above, it is the protocol, not the server, that makes the Jabber system.
> I, and I know Jeremie, would love to see another Jabber server being
> built. It would re-enforce the "Jabber is the protocol" point.
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