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Re: [Auth]Freport Update


From: David Sugar
Subject: Re: [Auth]Freport Update
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:02:23 -0500
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20020107

What does one consider local? I assume what some mean is that it is bound to a single workstation, but this is actually not that convienent. When I thought about IDsec, my first question to myself was, if it were widely available, would I be willing to use it? And second, how...

What I envision, at least for my own use, would be to put a profile server on my gateway machine and then setup profiles for everyone at home. This is both consistent with my desire to protect our data and the fact that it can be centralized somewhere. From the point of view of a business, or conducting a "professional existance", I could image deploying a profile server at the OST offices that employees could use when conducting company business. These scenareo's are both valid and possible with IDsec, so it clearly meets the "would I use it" test.

Clearly one key to making IDsec successful in a manner that is consistent with our goals is to make implimentation of a profile provider as easy and automatic to configure and run as possible.

Hans Zandbelt wrote:

John,

Provider" and no-onelse. The assumption was that the system had to
contain a 3rd party provider, to enable remote access, but that this
party was untrusted (if you don't trust Microsoft/Passport, why would
you trust your ISP?). I thought this was rather clear from the context
of my remark, but I was obviously mistaken. I hope this clarifies the
above paragraph.


OK, I see where you are coming from. The IDsec specification clearly
states that the Profile Manager is a trusted party. We should not
have had the discussion about possible data-mining; it is obvious that
you would choose for local Profile Management since you don't want to
trust anyone else with your data. That is a choice that people have to
make. I myself think that the task of being a Profile Manager can
be highly optimized in terms of security and accesibility by a third
party just like you hire trusted third parties to do your privacy-
related stuff like banking, medical advice etc.
However lets focus on the local Profile Manager for now.

The self-hosting scenario looks to be an option that isn't an option:
one must be willing to jump through hoops to be their own host and wring
their hands at the inevitable interference of Murphy's Inference - "Just
when you need the data the most; your self-administered system will make
the data unavailable and there will be no-one to call to fix the
problem." (sort of like: the phone always rings when you've your arse in


If someone is not willing to trust a third party and he's not willing to
do it himself, the only other option is not to do it at all...
I think local Profile Management doesn't need to be that hard. You're right
about the fact that it needs a good implementation: reliable and easy
configurable. That's certainly an issue, but not a design issue.
It can be built in into the client application as a library. In that case,
you can guarantee availability and if it isn't there you won't need it
because your client application has crashed along with it ;-)

It is a fact that this is an issue for every single virtual identity
proposal that we can think of.

Catch-22: increased convenience (3rd party) trades off for reduced
privacy (transactional metadata gathering). Is this a trade-off DotGNU
is willing to make? The further down the road to integration we go; the
more difficult it will be to change our minds.


No, because I think both cases can be covered possibly even with the same
software linked against different executables (web server and web client).

I guess the discussion boils down to the question wether we can make a good
implementation of a local Profile Manager (speaking any virtual
identity protocol). That's something that is up to ourselves!

Hans.

PS: for sure the PHP implementation is not convenient enough for local
   Profile Management.


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