Re: [DotGNU]RDF based discovery system

[James Michael DuPont]

Norbert,

My critique of the information politic of free software is not 
specific to dotgnu. The GCC is a perfect example of a project that
falls under the two class model. 

Again, I am not getting personal here, there are problems with the  
policies of free software coming from the very top.

I am pointing out the lack of open interfaces, the hiding of classes in

source files, the discouragement of meta-information. 

All of these are indication of a InformationsPolitik that I find in
free software. That is the problem that I see with free software, and
it is what will hold back development unless addressed.

The point is that a Discovery service for free software needs to be
thought through carefully. 

We need to consider the possibility of opening up a large amount of
metadata to the discovery service. This would conflict directly with
the current InformationsPolitik of dotgnu.

As I said, it is my challenge to you and the other dotgnu people to
deal with the question of openness and informationsharing.

It is very embarrassing that a organisation that is sworn to openness
and freedom is bent on crushing projects and hiding important internal
information from the "second class".

I am working on my patches, and will be fixing these problems as I see
them. People who also see the problem can use my patches. They will be
submitted to savannah.

mike

--- Norbert Bollow <address@hidden> wrote:
> Mike,
>   I think you're totally off-track with this criticism of DotGNU,
> and of Rhys in particular.  (Even if you don't mention him by name,
> it's clear who you mean).  The pnet project is not primarily about
> creativity, it has other goals... don't judge Rhys as being someone
> who "lacks creativity" just because he does not want your style of
> creativity in the official pnet sources.  DotGNU has plenty of room
> for creativity that can be introduced in other official development
> projects, as well as in the form of inofficial patches.  I can
> understand that the "cathedral" development style (which Rhys has
> consciously chosen to adopt for dotgnu-pnet) strikes you as a matter
> of "total control over the project"... I agree that a free software
> project which is developed in "cathedral" manner is like a little
> kingdom, but I think this is no problem whatsoever as long as
> everyone who wants can get their own little kingdom by forking the
> project.  I think that while the arguments against forking projects
> have merit in the context of "bazaar" style projects, it's totally
> acceptable to create a fork of a "cathedral" style project, if you
> don't agree with the maintainer's choice of goals which result in
> your patches being rejected.  However _because_ forking (or, what
> in this situation would be the more reasonable approach, distributing
> and maintaining an unofficial patch), is considered acceptable in the
> DotGNU community, I think you should be able to live with the fact
> that DotGNU development projects have the freedom to adopt a
> "cathedral" development style if they so choose.
> 
> If what I'm trying to say doesn't seem to make sense to you, maybe
> we should talk about it via irc or telephone?  I'd really like to
> get this situation of tension resolved, so that I can then move
> forward in the matter of official endorsement for SwigSharp.
> 
> Wram greetings,
> Norbert.
> 
> 
> James Michael DuPont <address@hidden> wrote:
> 
> > This ties back into my original proposal for a meta-object
> workgroup 
> > and meta-data repository. 
> > http://wiki.dotgnu.org/TaskMetaDataRepository
> > 
> > That would provide many datasources for a generic discovery system.
> > 
> > We need to really ask ourselves what is going to be published and
> what
> > not!
> > 
> > I feel that free software should not be afraid to allow free access
> to
> > the meta-data of a program. 
> > 
> > It seems that some people wish to reduce the amount of meta-data
> > available to to public, because they are afraid that they will lose
> > control of their projects when it becomes easy to change and use
> them.
> > 
> > I have no sympathy for the position of reducing knowledge and
> > information in free software project. Free software needs to be
> open,
> > and the meta data has to be made available in an easy to use
> format.
> > 
> > Discovery systems are fine for close source components, where the
> > vendor can put the goods in a black box. 
> > 
> > Many free software developers lack the creativity to think
> themselves
> > out of the box. 
> > 
> > They are happy to copy the ideas of microsoft and present solutions
> for
> > free software that do not make sense. 
> > 
> > The idea of discovery needs to go down to the method and variable
> level
> > where you can browse an program and extract just the needed bits
> and
> > bobs. In the end, this is tied closely into the job of the
> compiler,
> > but is implemented on a global scale.
> > 
> > I challenge you to have the courage to embrace such an idea.
> > 
> > I don't think it is possible because of the lack of knowledge
> exchange
> > and openness.
> > 
> > As far as I see is a clear creation of classes of developers in
> this
> > project : the "Haves", a few who jealously hide knowledge about the
> > project and the "Have-Nots". those who are on the outside looking
> in,
> > fighting with hidden data structures, bad error messages, and FUD.
> > 
> > I challenge you all to start sharing information, even if it would
> > reduce your total control over the project, in the end the whole
> > project will gain from it.
> > 
> > mike
> > 
> > --- Norbert Bollow <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > > Unless any objections are raised soon, DotGNU will have an RDF
> > > based
> > > > discovery system.
> > > 
> > > BTW there is no reason to limit this to webservices.  RDF-based
> > > discovery will be  useful for locating all kinds of services,
> > > including commercial services of all kinds, and including servers
> > > that
> > > offer software for download.
> > > 
> > > Greetings, Norbert.
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Founder & Steering Committee member of
> > > http://gnu.org/projects/dotgnu/
> > > Free Software Business Strategy Guide   ---> 
> > > http://FreeStrategy.info
> > > Norbert Bollow, Weidlistr.18, CH-8624 Gruet (near Zurich,
> > > Switzerland)
> > > Tel +41 1 972 20 59        Fax +41 1 972 20 69      
> > > http://norbert.ch
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Developers mailing list
> > > address@hidden
> > > http://www.dotgnu.org/mailman/listinfo/developers
> > 
> > 
> > =====
> > James Michael DuPont
> > http://introspector.sourceforge.net/
> > 
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
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> > 


=====
James Michael DuPont
http://introspector.sourceforge.net/

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