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[debbugs-tracker] bug#24596: closed (25.1; `f10' behavior)

From: GNU bug Tracking System
Subject: [debbugs-tracker] bug#24596: closed (25.1; `f10' behavior)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2016 18:50:02 +0000

Your message dated Thu, 06 Oct 2016 21:49:39 +0300
with message-id <address@hidden>
and subject line Re: bug#24596: 25.1; `f10' behavior
has caused the debbugs.gnu.org bug report #24596,
regarding 25.1; `f10' behavior
to be marked as done.

(If you believe you have received this mail in error, please contact

24596: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=24596
GNU Bug Tracking System
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--- Begin Message --- Subject: 25.1; `f10' behavior Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 08:41:45 -0700 (PDT)
`f10' used to just be bound to `tmm-menubar', for both TTY and
graphic-display Emacs.  Now it is bound to `menu-bar-open'.

1. User option `tty-menu-open-use-tmm' makes `f10' use `tmm-menubar'
instead, but only on TTY.  Why not also on graphic displays?  Or why not
have the option value let you choose: always `tmm-menubar', never
`tmm-menubar', or `tmm-menubar only for TTY?  (And of course rename it,
if it is made to apply to more than TTYs.)

2. Why can you not exit `menu-bar-open' (with nil
`tty-menu-open-use-tmm')?  Why is ESC the only way to cancel (at least
on MS Windows)?  Why are not the canonical Emacs ways of canceling
implemented here (`C-g' and `ESC ESC ESC')?

3. The doc string of `menu-bar-open' says nothing about the behavior.
It says nothing about what it does or what keys you can use, etc.  It
should.  Instead, it passes you off to commands `x-menu-bar-open',
`w32-menu-bar-open', `popup-menu', and `tmm-menubar'.

Are the keys you can use different for `x-menu-bar-open' and
`w32-menu-bar-open'?  The latter's doc tells you about keys you can use,
but the former's doc says nothing about keys.

Seems like the doc for `C-h k f10' should give you more info about the
behavior, and the keys you can use for the default behavior (at least).

4. The doc in the Emacs manual (node Menu Bar) is not too bad.  But
AFAICT, `C-g' does NOT work (in MS Windows), as it says it does.  It
also says that you can cancel using `ESC ESC ESC'.  But the doc of
`w32-menu-bar-open' (correctly) says that a single `ESC' cancels.  Dunno
whether this is a doc bug or the behavior (on Windows) is bugged.

5. Overall, it looks a bit like someone wrote `menu-bar-open',
`x-menu-bar-open', and `w32-menu-bar-open', and it was decided to
replace `tmm-menubar' as the binding of `f10'.  But I don't really see
the advantage, especially considering the lack of good doc.

In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32)
 of 2016-09-17 built on LAPHROAIG
Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
 'configure --without-dbus --without-compress-install CFLAGS=-static'

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Subject: Re: bug#24596: 25.1; `f10' behavior Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2016 21:49:39 +0300
> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 10:45:19 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Drew Adams <address@hidden>
> Cc: address@hidden
> > > > ESC ESC works for me on MS-Windows GUI frames.
> > >
> > > For me, with emacs -Q, a single ESC cancels.  A second ESC acts as
> > > a prefix key for the next key sequence.
> > 
> > Sorry, I omitted a crucial detail: the number of ESC presses needed to
> > exit the menu depends on whether you already dropped a menu or not.
> > That is, if you press F10, then the down-arrow, to drop the File menu,
> > you need 2 ESC: the first will pop down the menu, the second will exit
> > the menu bar.  But if you just press F10, or only type right-arrow or
> > left-arrow after that, i.e. there's no menu dropped down, then just
> > one ESC is enough.
> Got it.  Can the doc please say this?  I tried ESC ESC ESC with just
> f10, and I thought that the behavior was not as described.
> > > > ESC ESC ESC and C-g
> > > > work for me on TTY frames.  C-g doesn't work on a GUI frame because
> > > > the menu is controlled by Windows, not by Emacs, and Windows doesn't
> > > > know about C-g.  IOW, this is a limitation we can do very little
> > > > about.
> > >
> > > OK.  Then the fix is to fix the doc, which says something quite
> > > different from what the behavior really is.
> > 
> > I can only add a note there saying that with some toolkits the exact
> > keys to exit the menu might be different.  Any better ideas?
> That will help.  Thx.  Is the ESC behavior as you described above?  If
> so then it would help to mention it, I think.

I've now done that, and I'm marking this bug done.


--- End Message ---

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