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Re: Post-22.1 development?

From: Alan Mackenzie
Subject: Re: Post-22.1 development?
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 00:58:55 +0100
User-agent: Mutt/1.5.9i

Evening, Sean!

On Thu, Jun 07, 2007 at 03:17:33PM -0700, Sean O'Rourke wrote:
> Nick Roberts <address@hidden> writes:
> > When there is choice I don't see how they can be
> > counterproductive; presumably you can just use Carbon Emacs.

> I do use Carbon Emacs.  But there's always risk in being part of a
> silent minority, since the options of interest to such a minority are
> more likely to be removed for the sake of simplicity, etc. (see below).

I use Emacs on a 48 line Linux tty.  RMS also uses a tty.  So does Thi,
and I think one or two other Emacs developers.  Uncluttered editing on
Emacs isn't going to disappear any time soon.

> >  > I already have a number of lines in my .emacs disabling various
> >  > bits of modernization (e.g. tooltip-mode, tool-bar-mode,
> >  > blink-cursor-mode, enormous fringes on both sides),

> > Enormous is an exaggeration - they're one character wide - and since
> > you _can_ disable them I see no problem. 

> True, but IIRC it was only possible to disable the fringes after
> a number of people complained.  And "enormous" is relative -- for
> me at the time, the fringe made it impossible to have two
> non-overlapping, 80-column frames side-by-side with my preferred
> font.

The unsuppressability of the fringes (introduced in Emacs 21) was IMAO a
big mistake.  It was one of the very few "enhancements" in Emacs which
couldn't be turned off.  I think it's safe to say that there is
absolutely NO new feature which somebody won't hate.  The help fora were
inundated in 2001 by people wanting to turn off the fringes.

> > I don't see these features simply as modernisation.  I find the
> > toolbar useful for debugging and the fringe displays breakpoint
> > icons.  I imagine other people have other uses for them.
> I have since re-added a half-width left fringe for debugging
> arrows.  I would prefer that it only appear when the arrow was
> needed, but I now prefer it to the old text arrow.
> > I think a bit of flexibility is needed on both sides.  This
> > could get blown up out of proportion, but I think it should
> > really be a small issue.
> Agreed.  I'm happy as long as I can disable these things in my
> .emacs.  I just thought that there are probably quite a few of us
> out here who prefer doing things the "old way," that this very
> preference is part of what keeps us using Emacs rather than
> Eclipse or something, and that it's important to remind everyone
> that we exist.
Agreed on all points.

Alan Mackenzie.

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