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Re: visualization of CVS commits

From: Geoffrey Teale
Subject: Re: visualization of CVS commits
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:47:34 +0200

On Jun 25, 2008, at 7:37 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

Geoffrey Teale <address@hidden> writes:

On Jun 25, 2008, at 5:38 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

Richard M Stallman <address@hidden> writes:

  I also find the demo very cool, and I think releasing Emacs 23
  accompanied with such a video would have a very positive effect.

The use of Flash is very bad for free software.  If we release
a video, we should release it _only_ in Ogg Theora.

I am not sure, but isn't the version of Flash supported by the Gnash
player reasonably documented?

To draw an analogy: OpenOffice.org exists therefore it is OK to
distribute emacs documents in MS Word format.

The analogy falls down exactly at the point of my question, because MS
Word format is not documented at all reasonably.  It also falls down
otherwise since Emacs has a builtin info reader, but no builtin Ogg
Theora reader.

Well, you say a 'version' of flash is documented. Now I will freely admit my argument is a little trite, but what I mean to say is that Emacs should not be seen to promote the use of a format that isn't entirely free. My, admittedly poor, analogy was trying to show that the question of whether or not a tool is available to view the material which is free (how ever it came about, through documentation or otherwise) is not a complete solution if the format itself is not completely free, in it's most current, complete version. If you send someone the message that flash is OK, how are they to distinguish between documented version 8 that *might*, if you're really lucky, work in Gnash and version 9 which will not?

Some people may agree with that statement, I for one do not.

So you make up a strawman which has absolutely no usable connection with
my question or Richard's statement and then sneer at it.

I am sorry. I really did not mean to sneer - I simply feel strongly about flash and felt compelled to support an argument against that format.

That's all very nice, but I am still interested about the original

Going back to the beginning - I think making such a video available would certainly be quite cool and is the sort of material that could easily get pushed around "viraly" on sites like reddit. I see no downside to that idea.

One problem that I see with Ogg Theora that it is intended, as far as I
know, for real-life movies.  Just like JPEGS are rather unsuitable for
screen shots when compared to well-made PNGs (except when a large amount
of screen is covered by a photograph) because of a lousy tradeoff
between artifacts and compression ratio (PNGs tend to be quite smaller
and sharper), I'd expect Ogg Theora to be similarly encumbered for
screen animations.

I see the point, but I'd contend that the freedom issues are more important (to me at least). There must be some suitable, free software, animation tools out there.

Feel free to point out when I am mistaken.  But please try addressing
what I have been saying instead of something else.

Sorry, I simply felt strongly about it, that is all.
Geoffrey Teale
Software and Technology Consultant, M√ľnchen

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