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Re: Efforts to attract more users?

From: Eli Zaretskii
Subject: Re: Efforts to attract more users?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 10:19:06 +0300

> From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <address@hidden>
> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:23:48 +0900
> Cc: Lennart Borgman <address@hidden>,
>       "address@hidden" <address@hidden>
> It's a shame that GNU Emacs, of all the projects in the world, feels
> so impoverished that its developers can't take time out to mentor
> somebody like Lennart, show him the ropes, and *teach* him how to make
> submissions that get accepted the first time around and require only
> minor adjustments and checks before integration to the trunk.

Stephen, I'm sorry to break it to you, but you are talking out of
ignorance.  You've read one or two recent threads, formed your own
illusion of what they tell, and now attack the wrong people based on
that illusion.  This is imply unfair.

The facts are different.  Indeed, a very small part of Lennart's
patches were outright rejected, because they were based on wrong
assumptions and ideas.  However, most of his patches were not
rejected.  They got _reviewed_, and the review yielded _comments_ and
requests for changes.  The problem started when Lennart effectively
refused to modify his code according to the comments.  Instead, he
argued time and again that his code was correct, and the reviewers
were wrong.  This led to endless discussions going in circles and
leading nowhere, so people tend to cut their losses and stop
responding.  The result is that his patches are left hanging in the

And after several such experiences, I cannot blame anyone for trying
to cut their losses even _before_ entering the same vicious circle for
the N+1st time.

IOW, if there is stubbornness, you will find plenty of it -- on
Lennart's side.  His lack of will to compromise and hear to *mentors*
and learn from them is profound, and doesn't seem to be prone to
change any time soon.  While Lennart is entitled to his views and ways
of socializing with others, it is very hard to teach and mentor
someone who in effect thinks, even if he doesn't say that explicitly,
that he is always right.

It's a shame that Emacs development seems to lose Lennart's resources
of time and energy, but I really don't see how things could go
differently, given his repeated attitude and lack of will to be taught
and become part of a team.

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