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Re: Emacs learning curve
From: |
Miles Bader |
Subject: |
Re: Emacs learning curve |
Date: |
Sat, 24 Jul 2010 02:57:45 +0900 |
Lennart Borgman <address@hidden> writes:
>>>> There is absolutley no proof that CUA would 'ease' a new users
>>>> experience; there is proof that it would make make the experience
>>>> harder for all who are accustomed to emacs though.
>
> Of course there are evidence that CUA would make it easier in some
> respect for new users. They would immediately be able to use the CUA
> keys.
I think by "evidence," he meant actual data, not suppositions.
I've watched at least one CUA-accustomed complete Emacs noob learn
Emacs, and who didn't seemed bothered at all by the lack of C-x/etc
(they just used the menus for those things until they had become
accustomed to Emacs keys).
Would there have been some small gain in learning speed if C-x was
available? Probably. Would that gain have been justified by the costs
of supporting C-x? Arguably not.
> Emacs is already mode dependent since it is using keybindings with
> several steps.
[That is not a mode in the normal sense -- people don't think of "oh,
I'll enter C-x mode, then hit C-s," they think of the entire thing
sequence as a single entity. So the downsides normally attributed to
modality don't really apply.]
>> To illustrate: do we really want to consider the following a suitable
>> user experience for new users? Once they type more than 5 keys per
>> second, CUA behavior will get replaced by native Emacs behavior? That
>> sort of cleverness is not predictable to a new user.
>
> This is an excellent example of Kim's creativity to work around the
> resistance to adopt CUA bindings in Emacs. Of course this work around
> is not needed any more of CUA would be made a first class citizen in
> Emacs.
It's certainly a clever mechanism, and it's to Kim's credit that it
works as well as it does, but that doesn't make it any less of an
unreliable kludge. It's _not_ something we want turned on by default.
> Of course this work around is not needed any more of CUA would be made
> a first class citizen in Emacs.
No doubt --- but the costs of doing that (which you constantly seem to
simply ignore) seem very high, and thus it is unlikely to happen.
-Miles
--
Opposition, n. In politics the party that prevents the Goverment from running
amok by hamstringing it.
- Re: Emacs learning curve, (continued)
- Re: Emacs learning curve, Alfred M. Szmidt, 2010/07/22
- Re: Emacs learning curve, David Kastrup, 2010/07/22
- Re: Emacs learning curve, David Kastrup, 2010/07/22
- Re: Emacs learning curve, Wojciech Meyer, 2010/07/22
- Re: Emacs learning curve, Lennart Borgman, 2010/07/25
- RE: Emacs learning curve, Drew Adams, 2010/07/25
- Re: Emacs learning curve, Lennart Borgman, 2010/07/25
- RE: Emacs learning curve, Drew Adams, 2010/07/25
- Re: Emacs learning curve, Fabian Ezequiel Gallina, 2010/07/25
- Re: Emacs learning curve, Lennart Borgman, 2010/07/23
- Re: Emacs learning curve,
Miles Bader <=
- RE: Emacs learning curve, Drew Adams, 2010/07/23
- Re: Emacs learning curve, Lennart Borgman, 2010/07/23
- Re: Emacs learning curve, Miles Bader, 2010/07/24
- Re: Emacs learning curve, Kim F. Storm, 2010/07/24
- Re: Emacs learning curve, Miles Bader, 2010/07/24
- Re: Emacs learning curve, David Robinow, 2010/07/24
- Re: Emacs learning curve, Stefan Monnier, 2010/07/23
- Re: Emacs learning curve, Tom, 2010/07/23
- RE: Emacs learning curve, Drew Adams, 2010/07/23
- Re: Emacs learning curve, Óscar Fuentes, 2010/07/23