[Top][All Lists]

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

RE: Bikeshedding "user choice"

From: Drew Adams
Subject: RE: Bikeshedding "user choice"
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 21:29:05 -0800

> In general, if Emacs...hasn't bound the key, fall back
> to OS if available seems like a good idea (POLA).

Show a `... is unbound' message is also a good idea.
That's the standard behavior in Emacs (POLA).

> once the user has the capability of binding a key, then she
> has the choice to bind it to `ignore' or `unbound-event-error'

Or to a command that passes it through to the OS?  That would be the way we
normally define keys in Emacs.  Including the way we define default bindings.

I would prefer that approach to a `w32-passthrough-events' option, as I
mentioned.  For one thing, `C-h M-f4' etc. would tell you what the key does (at
least that it is passed to the OS).  But mainly it just fits how we handle keys
in Emacs.

But I'm assuming that that approach is not feasible or it would have already
been discussed in terms of implementation.

> The additional option to change the default fallback
> (yikes!) that you advocate is a YAGNI (yes, even *you*
> don't *need* it!)

Are you referring to the `w32-passthrough-events' option, which Stefan came up
with?  Yes, I think it's a good idea that if an unbound key isn't listed in the
option then Emacs shows its usual that-key-is-unbound message.

That message is the standard Emacs behavior for an unbound key.  And no, an
unbound key is not the same as a key bound to `ignore' or to a command that
echoes `... is unbound'.

> the question is about defaults.

I haven't argued strongly about the default behavior.  I expressed my preference
(leave `M-f4' unbound), but I said clearly that it's not terribly important.
Bind it to M-f4 by default and Emacs users will be astonished.  Leave it unbound
and Windows users new to Emacs will be astonished.

> Sure, but surprising Emacs users doesn't matter much because
> *the key is normally unbound*, and therefore they won't be
> stroking it....

Ever hit a key accidentally?  Ever use `C-h k' to see what a key does?  Ever
change platforms?  I can see at least some Emacs users being surprised on
Windows when they hit the key and Emacs quits.

> Surprising Windows users does matter because *the key is
> normally bound*, and those who use that shortcut will be
> mightily annoyed.

Sure, no one suggested the contrary.  Windows users (and others) are surprised
and mightily annoyed at first by many things in Emacs.

And no, I don't say that as a reason to increase their annoyance by adding one
more nuisance.  I've recognized this annoyance from the beginning.  There are of
course lots of Windows users who never use Alt-f4, but that doesn't lessen the
hurt for those who do.

> Unless your goal is to cause as much pain for newbies as
> possible as long as it doesn't also cause pain for old farts
> (of whatever age)?  That seems perverse to me, though.

No, that's not my goal.  I don't have a goal wrt the default behavior.  I've
been clear about that.  I am fine with either default behavior for the key.  I
have my own preference, but I don't feel strongly about it.

reply via email to

[Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread]