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Re: gnu-emacs-help news->mail gateway

From: Tim Cross
Subject: Re: gnu-emacs-help news->mail gateway
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 10:29:56 +1100

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Eli Zaretskii <address@hidden> wrote:
>> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 08:39:43 +1100
>> From: Tim Cross <address@hidden>
>> Cc: Sivaram Neelakantan <address@hidden>, address@hidden
>> Still misses the point. With mail lists, you MUST provide a legitimate
>> email address.
> You already did, a thousand times, when you posted here.  The 1001
> time doesn't really matter.


> And I talked about the amount of spam on GNU lists not by mistake, but
> on purpose: the amount of spam in news groups is by far larger.  So
> what if it doesn't get to you by a protocol other than email?

There is a big difference. In the case of newgroups, I choose to go
there and if that means having to deal with spam, it is my choice.
With email, I do not choose to receive spam.

>> It is irrelevant whether the lists you subscribes to
>> gets spam or whether its spam filter is good enough to filter spam
>> out. You don't  know for certain if people subscribed to that mail
>> list are not getting spam directly to their inbox i.e. not via the
>> mail list, but directly to the address they used in subscribing to the
>> list.
> Well, I post to many lists, but get very little spam.  So I think your
> fears are greatly exaggerated.

Ah, the old 'it doesn't happen to me so you must be wrong' argument eh?

Even in this thread, we have one other post who states that
subscribing to a list resulted in a significant increase in spam - so
that would be 1 all

>> This is the big difference between mail list based collaboration and
>> newgroups or web forums. With the latter, you don't need to provide a
>> mail address.
> If you still believe in the year 2011 that withholding an email
> address will make you invisible and unreachable by spammers, then,
> well, my sympathies.

Wow, thats a pretty disappointing level or arrogance. You can keep
your sympathies thanks, not interested.

The issue of spam is really only a symptom of the fundamental
differences. The central point is that for mail lists, you have to
provide a legitimate address. You cannot be anonymous in the same way
you can with newsgroups or web based forums - well at least you cannot
without going to a lot more effort. Yes, you can get a one purpose
gmail account or use other mail proxy facilities which can make you
more anonymous, but it is more effort and requires a greater level of
awareness. This may not be relevant to some and may not be relevant to
GNU lists, but it does not change the fact that it is a fundamental
difference between mail lists and newsgroups - the fundamental
difference between a push based approach compared to a pull one.

>> As I stated originally, I do see this change as being largely
>> inevitable, but it is just not true that mail lists are an equivalent
>> alternative.
> I think it's a better alternative.
Fine and I think it is not. I don't know why you insist on arguing.
I've only stated that it is an unfortunate but inevitable change. I
accept it is going to happen, I just don't accept it is an


Tim Cross

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