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RE: CL package serious deficiencies
From: |
egnarts-ms |
Subject: |
RE: CL package serious deficiencies |
Date: |
Tue, 7 Feb 2012 04:29:15 -0800 (PST) |
Drew Adams wrote:
>
> 2. There are lots of people who use cl.el. There are even lots of people
> who
> systematically write libraries that depend on cl.el functions at runtime
> (not
> just macros at compile time). Unfortunately. My impression is that this
> might
> be increasingly the case, and that perhaps younger or newer Emacs users
> are more
> likely to do so.
>
As I have pointed out in the original post, I have managed to fix all the
points described there. (Except for `incf', `decf' etc. -- I just
introduced new, correct variants like `incf*', `decf*'). So I am eager to
share my experience.. although I realize that my experience with Emacs is
relatively poor. And what is the most annoying thing, to my mind, is an
absence of understanding of interdependencies between different
parts/libs/files of Emacs during the build process. I just don't know what
piece of functionality it is possible to use when implementing another piece
of functionality.
> 4. And yes, it's non-trivial work to get things right. If you, Stefan,
> find the
> existing code too lightly commented and less than clear, then it should be
> evident that others will too.
>
You know, in my opinion the code of CL package is quite understandable
(especially in comparison with commercial C++ outsource code I'm working
with) :)
And what kills me the most, is that I cannot manage to find a true Lispy
code. Yes, I'm inexperienced lisper and maybe I just don't understand
something. But what I saw in CL and some other places of Emacs sources
(lisp-mode.el for example) is not true Lispy code in the sense that it
doesn't attempt to make use of the main Lisp advantage -- ability to create
DSLs.
To be more specific, now that I read about anaphoric macros in "On Lisp" by
Paul Graham, I find it awkward not to use that functionality in complicated
code containing lots of conditioning. Moreover, I created something that is
called "aif-op-1" -- a macro that works like this:
(aif-op-1 (eq (func-1)
'symbol)
;; here we have (func-1) result accessible with "it" name
(func-2 arg1 it)
;;here we also have "it" bound to what previous (func-1) returned
(func-3 it)
...)
Such things are not difficult to implement in Elisp. But I haven't seen
anything like these neat language tricks in Emacs sources, especially in CL
package. Instead, much code is just written manually rather than
automatically (by macros).
> 5. IMO it makes sense to proceed gradually, and to start by including more
> of
> the simpler things that do work well, even if in a limited way, into
> regular
> Emacs Lisp.
>
This is a good idea. We must try to make basic Lisp ideas be viable and
working, and have them evolve and develop in the modern world. Elisp is a
good language for what it is used. We must make it excellent.
--
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- CL package serious deficiencies, egnarts-ms, 2012/02/06
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, Stefan Monnier, 2012/02/06
- RE: CL package serious deficiencies, Drew Adams, 2012/02/06
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, Stefan Monnier, 2012/02/06
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, egnarts-ms, 2012/02/07
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, Stefan Monnier, 2012/02/07
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, egnarts-ms, 2012/02/08
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, Stefan Monnier, 2012/02/08
- RE: CL package serious deficiencies,
egnarts-ms <=
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, Nix, 2012/02/07
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, Lennart Borgman, 2012/02/07
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, Juanma Barranquero, 2012/02/07
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, Lennart Borgman, 2012/02/07
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, Nix, 2012/02/07
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, Lennart Borgman, 2012/02/07
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, Nix, 2012/02/07
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, Lennart Borgman, 2012/02/07
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, Nix, 2012/02/07
- Re: CL package serious deficiencies, Lennart Borgman, 2012/02/07