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RE: C-x C-e with prefix arg

From: Drew Adams
Subject: RE: C-x C-e with prefix arg
Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 14:42:42 -0700

> > By your logic, `C-h v' should also print using elision.
> `C-h v' uses the special treatment of large values too:
> it moves long lists to the end of the *Help* buffer
> and puts the text "Its value is shown below" on the top.
> To see the full value, you have to click the button "[below]".

No, you don't have to click any button.  The full value is shown, without you
having to do anything at all.  It's just there, period.  There is no
intermediate, partial value printed, ever.

And this is the case even for a help command, not for a command that inserts the
value in the buffer, for you to edit or otherwise use.  IOW, even just for help,
Emacs gives you the full value.

> Similarly, you have to click on the abbreviated list
> printed by `C-x C-e' to see its full value.

Not similar - see above.  You're twisting things.

For `C-x C-e', the full value should be printed when you print to the current
buffer.  If you instead want to insert only part of the value, then you can jump
through a (minor) extra hoop: `C--' instead of `C-u'.  Neither is harder than
the other, of course, but `M--' is less commonly used by some users.

People should not have to guess that they can "click on the abbreviated list
printed by `C-x C-e' to see its full value."  That's nuts, IMHO.

> > IMO, users should have a quick way of getting the full 
> > value in the current buffer, _even if_ they generally prefer
> > the partial value and have reflected that more general preference
> > in the user options.
> Currently the quickest way to get the full value is `C-u C-x 
> C-e C-b RET' (`C-b' moves point to the abbreviated list where
> `RET' is bound to `last-sexp-toggle-display').

That's crazy.  No one should have to guess that and then jump through such
hoops.  Who would think that `C-b RET' would magically give them the full value?

When you print to the current buffer, you _usually_ want the full value.  That's
my assumption, and I'm sticking to it.  That most common use case should be
simple to realize.  Let people jump through a (minor) hoop if they really want
to insert only an abbreviated value in the current buffer.

> Implementing a shorter key sequence to do the same `M-0 C-x C-e' or
> `M-- C-x C-e' like you proposed is a good improvement.

I most certainly did not propose any such thing.  That's your proposal (I
guess).  Saying that it is my proposal and that it is a good improvement is a
bit disingenuous.

I proposed that anytime you print to the current buffer, except if you jump
through the minor hoop of using `M--', you should get the full value printed.

> So I see no need to change the default behavior of `C-u C-x C-e'
> from printing an abbreviated list to printing the full value
> since both key sequences will have the same length.

We disagree.

But let me say it again: I really don't care, beyond trying to improve Emacs for
others.  For my own use, `C-x C-e' is `pp-eval-last-sexp', and `M-:' is
`icicle-pp-eval-expression' (like `pp-eval-expression').  IOW, I already get
behavior similar to what I proposed for Emacs.  Always have.

So if you want to go with your proposal rather than what I suggested in this
thread, please do so.  But please stop saying that it is my proposal.

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