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Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp

From: David Kastrup
Subject: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2014 06:20:12 +0100
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux)

Óscar Fuentes <address@hidden> writes:

> David Kastrup <address@hidden> writes:
>> But it's impossible to get things in perspective if everybody insists on
>> misrepresenting Richard and ascribing absurdities to him.
>> If you refuse to see the issues that are to be balanced, you can't
>> complain when your input on choosing the balance is discarded as
>> worthless.
> David, with all due respect: I think that people like you and RMS who
> don't know the issue at all from the user's POV (and even loudly despise
> C++) have no right for telling anyone that they do not understand the
> matter at hand. As a lifetime C++ programmer who follows GCC, Emacs and
> Clang communities since a very long time,

I don't think that there is any further point to answer you if you
insist on considering everybody with a different viewpoint as clueless.
You may have been following the GCC and Emacs communities since a very
long time, but Richard has been founding and leading them as well as the
GNU project exactly because he has been seeing the issue from the users'
point of view.  It is an aspect of users he is catering for that you
refuse to see.  That is perfectly within your rights.

But you cannot meaningfully contribute feedback for decisions that are
focused about maintaining the longterm viability of free software if you
refuse to consider the reasoning that lead to the existence of the GNU
project in the first place.

> it is obvious to me that RMS stance will keep GCC and Emacs back for
> no gain on any aspect, including user's freedom.

The user is free to install software against the long-term interest of
the GNU project without the blessing of GNU infrastructure like its
servers and other official distribution channels.  His freedom is not
hampered by us not lying about what is and what is not in GNU's
long-term interests.

Making Emacs depend on Clang for features clearly is not.

> It is possible that I'm missing some nuances of your political POV,
> but you are uninterested on the whole technical landscape and its
> implications. And please don't say that technical issues are secondary
> here, because understanding those is fundamental for choosing the
> correct policy. You are like catholic priests dictating how people
> should deal with sexuality. See what they achieve.

You manage to stoop to insinuations of child molestation.  Impressive.
It is probably my fault for not cutting off the "discussion" sooner, but
then I lack Richard's experience about how to deal with getting ranted
at.  I am sure that there are other people who will just love to discuss
matters with you in that style, but I'm out.

David Kastrup

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