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Re: proposal: require GnuTLS 3.1.x (previous stable)

From: Ivan Shmakov
Subject: Re: proposal: require GnuTLS 3.1.x (previous stable)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 12:57:28 +0000
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux)

>>>>> Peder O Klingenberg <address@hidden> writes:
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 25 2014 at 18:55, Ivan Shmakov wrote:

 >> Yes, although I’d rather question the necessity of building Emacs
 >> ‘master’ on an LTS GNU/Linux system.  If the intent is to use the
 >> last decade’s versions of Libc and Coreutils, – why Emacs has to be
 >> newer than that?

 > Because features.  My desktop machine runs Kubuntu 10.04 still,
 > because it mostly does what I need without needing my attention all
 > the time, it is a stable platform I can use to get work done.

 > There is no conscious desire to run old software for nostalgias sake,
 > more a lack of desire to upgrade willy-nilly with the associated
 > breakage-fixing and retraining of muscle memory because some dimwits
 > decided to reinvent everything badly.

 > I do most of my work in Emacs.  That means I care about it more than
 > I care about this months desktop fad, the latest and greatest in init
 > systems, or whatever fancy gui+daemon should be used to dynamically
 > configure the network on my perfectly stationary, hardwired desktop
 > machine.

        I understand the sentiment.  However, my own (free) advice for
        this case would be to switch to (non-LTS) Debian and Openbox.

        The Debian’s commitment to non-Linux variants of the GNU system
        (including GNU proper), combined with the Systemd maintainers’
        well-known decision not to care about such systems at all,
        effectively means that Debian is bound to continue its support
        for our good old SysV init in the foreseeable future.  (And why,
        I’ve just got a fresh install of SysVinit-based Jessie running
        in a QEMU/KVM environment.  No issues observed so far.)

        At the same time, Openbox appears to offer unparalleled
        stability when it comes to the UI.  The only major UI change I
        can readily recall to happen since I’ve switched to it ca. 2008
        is that the list shown when switching windows was changed to be
        strictly vertical (previously it was columns-and-rows.)

        Formerly, I’ve experimented with FVWM, TWM, WindowMaker; and
        even (ca. 2000) the then-nascent KDE and GNOME – both of which
        I’ve found rather boring and lacking any substance, so to say.

 > I started building emacs from trunk because the repository version
 > had features I wanted.  Mostly --daemon, which is a killer feature
 > and a real productivity boost for me, and which was not available in
 > the distro-packaged emacs.  I was willing to invest the time and
 > effort involved to get a better emacs, but I was, and am, reluctant
 > to upgrade the bits of the machine that work just fine.

        I mainly use Emacs under Screen, which means that I’m having at
        least some benefits of --daemon since the Emacs 20 days.

        To me, running the latest development version of Emacs means
        that I can try its new features one at a time (more or less),
        instead of having them being forced upon me a pile at once.

 >> Especially given that the older versions of the system, when
 >> necessary to support legacy software, could be just as well be run
 >> in chroot(2) environments.  (Or even be entirely “virtual.”)

 > It's not about legacy software.  It's about how I choose to spend my
 > limited time.

        There’re valid cases where upgrading the system breaks the
        software one relies upon, and the cost of fixing these issues
        properly (be it time or money) is just too high.  This is what
        forced me to gain some experience with chroots and the like.

 > Playing sysadmin was really exciting back when I installed slackware
 > from a stack of floppies.  These days, time spent maintaining the OS
 > is time not spent doing what they pay me to do, and what I enjoy
 > doing - develop software.

        Alas, some of the things I do require the use of software other
        than Emacs, which warrants keeping my systems reasonably up to
        date.  (Although it sure got easier ever since Emacs got EWW,
        and I’ve got the VC MediaWiki backend working, too.  What’s even
        better is that there are still a few unexplored packages,
        including ELPA ones, which look rather promising…)


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