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Re: More metaproblem

From: Eli Zaretskii
Subject: Re: More metaproblem
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 09:08:49 +0200

> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 23:01:31 +0100
> From: Jorgen Schaefer <address@hidden>
> Cc: Karl Fogel <address@hidden>, address@hidden,
>  address@hidden, address@hidden
> On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 23:21:33 +0200
> Eli Zaretskii <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > It's precisely that I don't have time to be more active than I am,
> > > that leads me to want the project's development procedures to be
> > > more conducive to developers like me -- there are many of them out
> > > there.
> > 
> > Then you don't have the right to whine about how the project is being
> > managed.
> Do you realize how incredibly hostile this comes across as?

It's not.  Just try reading it with fresh eyes.

In any case, it's no more hostile than Karl's attack.

And it's the truth.

> As a possible contributor, reading this, how inclined do you think this
> makes me to bring up possible stumbling blocks I might have when trying
> to contribute to Emacs?

I hope the same as you were before.  People bring up stumbling blocks
here all the time, and I think we try to eliminate the ones that we

> And let me tell you, my experience with *trying* to contribute to Emacs
> so far mainly has left me with the impression that I might be able to
> contribute to Emacs *despite*, not *because*, of the best efforts of
> "the management". But only if I work really hard for it.

If you imply that "the management" consciously makes it harder for you
to contribute, then I certainly disagree and object.

> Of course, I should not bring this up, because my time is limited and I
> am only interested in some minor contributions, so my opinion is
> irrelevant, and I "don't have the right to whine" about this, right?

No, that's not what I said.  And it all depends what you say and how.
For now, I have no idea yet what bothers you and why, so I really
cannot comment.

> | - ensure that the project’s ‘About’ page and documentation include
> |   information about what types of contributions are most needed, and
> |   how to contribute
> | - acknowledge and celebrate contributions, so that people who do
> |   contribute feel appreciated and motivated to continue;
> | - monitor questions in the project’s email discussion list and/or
> |   forums, particularly those from newcomers, to ensure that they are
> |   answered;
> | - provide information to the project’s community about the project’s
> |   future development, perhaps in the form of a ‘road map’ that lists
> |   the planned changes and enhancements;
> | - ensure that documentation is up-to-date, and that aspects of the
> |   software that may be perceived as complex are explained clearly;
> |   and
> | - find out what barriers participants encounter when making a
> |   contribution to the project, and take steps to minimise or
> |   eliminate them.

I think we do most of that.

> It is probably not obvious to you, but Emacs fails at every single one
> of those to various degrees.

I disagree.  But I'd be delighted to see more people participate in
these efforts, and I'm sure so will Stefan and others.

> And only somewhat related, for you especially, Eli, I can highly
> recommend John E. Vincent's essay on _Software Empathy_.[2]

That's simply unfair and uncalled for.

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