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Re: Framework extending window functions for Follow Mode (etc.).

From: Juri Linkov
Subject: Re: Framework extending window functions for Follow Mode (etc.).
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2015 02:50:04 +0200
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)

>> >> I admit I am confused. I thought we had narrowed down three possible
>> >> solutions to this issue (which you just listed over at the bug thread), 
>> >> all
>> >> of which are simpler than this code.
>> > Those solutions are to merely one part of the bug, namely C-s wrongly
>> > scrolling a window instead of moving onto the next one.
>> > The other parts of #17453 are:
>> > 2: lazy highlighting is confined to one Follow Mode window (I'm a bit
>> >   confused as to the status of this, though);
>> This problem is already solved by enabling lazy-highlighting of the whole
>> follow-mode buffer, but I postponed installing that patch to not create merge
>> conflicts with your work in the same functions.
> My solution is to lazily highlight just the part visible in windows (but
> in all pertinent windows).  Isn't highlighting all of it going to be a
> bit slow on a large buffer?

It shouldn't be slow with a sufficiently low value of 

>> > 3: With isearch-allow-scroll enabled, it is not possible to scroll point
>> >   to the next or previous Follow Mode window;
>> > , in addition to which I have a fix for ...
>> That's because isearch-post-command-hook uses isearch-pre-scroll-point
>> to move it back, so it's possible to nullify isearch-pre-scroll-point
>> in follow-mode, but I see that it leaves the highlighted found string
>> at its old position because the isearch-allow-scroll feature doesn't support
>> finding the next search hit after scrolling, or something like this
>> that would make sense.  IOW, this is a limitation of isearch-allow-scroll.
> In my personal copy of Emacs, I've had the isearch scrolling working
> properly with Follow Mode for ~18 months.  It was me that wrote the
> isearch scrolling code in the first place, back in 2003.

Yes, I remember, and appreciate your efforts to develop it further.

> Part 3 of the bug is most assuredly NOT an intrinsic limitation of
> isearch-allow-scroll.  It's caused by the variables w-L1 and w-L-1, the
> bounds for the permissible scrolling range in
> isearch-string-out-of-window, being set to the top and botom of the
> _single_ window.  When these variables are set to the top of bottom of
> the entire FM group of windows, the bug is solved.  This requires my new
> framework, or something like it.

I tried to not use isearch-string-out-of-window/isearch-back-into-window
at all, but I can't get a useful behavior in such situation of scrolling
out of the window with the current search hit.  Could you show how you see
it should work in this case in follow-mode?

>> > 4: With point near the bottom of a Follow Mode window, start an Isearch,
>> >   and repeatedly do M-s C-e, until the highlighted match continues on to
>> >   the next window.  Continue doing M-s C-e until the string in the
>> >   minibuffer expands by a line.  At this point the top of the RH window
>> >   gets spuriously scrolled into the middle of the window, leaving the FM
>> >   windows unsynchronised.
>> I see the same behavior even without Isearch.
> The buggy behaviour I've described is explicitly and essentially an
> Isearch scenario.  What do you mean by "the same behavior" and what
> sequence of commands generates it?
> The solution to problem 4 involves making sure point is at the right
> place at the right time when invoking isearch-message.  I have made
> changes to fix it.

I meant such things as 'M-: (message "x\ny\nz") RET' causes jumping too.

>> Honestly, I see here nothing that requires a new multi-window framework.
> I want these bugs to be solved.  What, then, are the alternatives to
> this framework (or something like it)?  Isearch needs information about
> the Follow Mode windows, or it can't work properly.
> So far, I've written three solutions for these bugs, as I outlined at
> length in an email to Martin R. today.  The first of these solutions was
> (justifiably) rejected by Stefan because it was a quick and dirty fix,
> and he explicitly requested the new framework that I have now built.
> Eli didn't like the second attempt and explicitly suggested the way for
> my third attempt.  You and Martin dislike this most recent third
> attempt.
> It seems to me I've spent more time discussing this bug on the bug list
> and emacs-devel, and reformulating the fix, than actually tracking down
> and fixing the bugs in the first place.  At the moment I feel like I'm
> trying to hack down a wall of constant negativity.  I don't recall
> anybody else saying positively they want this bug fixed, and I certainly
> don't feel I've had much encouragement wrt this bug, in the last few
> days and weeks.
> I see Follow Mode as being a critically important component of Emacs,
> the more so since very wide (240 characters and more) screens displaced
> the fairly narrow CRT monitors.  I would like every Emacs user to be
> able to use FM as easily as I can.  Right at the moment there is no
> suitable interface to FM for libraries that require to do their own
> window manipulation.  Such an interface is what Stefan wanted, and it's
> what I want, too.  As of yet, there's been practically no discussion of
> this interface I've written, beyond Eli suggesting the current version
> and John suggesting a name change for some hooks.
> So, where do we go from here?  I would like these bugs fixed for 25.1.

The problem is that you are trying to design a new framework,
but not demonstrated yet how it would be useful generally in cases
other than a specific combination of isearch/follow-mode.

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