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Re: use-package.el -> Emacs core

From: Oleh Krehel
Subject: Re: use-package.el -> Emacs core
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 13:10:00 +0100
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux)

Juanma Barranquero <address@hidden> writes:

> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 8:55 AM, Oleh Krehel <address@hidden> wrote:
>> I have some reservations for this. While I use use-package, I started
>> with it long after learning basic Elisp. Essentially, use-package is a
>> black box that abstracts and creates new syntax. Which is fine for
>> veteran users, since they have an idea of what it does. But I think it
>> might be detrimental to new Elisp users. Using the first method, they
>> learn what `add-hook' is, what `add-to-list' is, what keymaps are etc.
>> These things are useful in all kinds of places, not just in the context
>> of setting up packages.
> Wouldn't that be an argument against Customize, too?

Customize is for people that aren't yet ready to learn Elisp.  Once they
do, it indeed becomes redundant. I used Customize when I started out
around 5 years ago. I don't use it now, except for providing it to the
users of my packages.

Use-package is already an Elisp thing. We should encourage the core
Elisp to be simple to learn, because it is actually very simple.  Not
anymore so with macros like `cl-loop', `pcase' and `use-package'.  They
are powerful, but /they are their own language/ completely separate from
Elisp. They have their place, but in my opinion Elisp newbies should not
be encouraged to use them. And including `use-package' into the core
somehow promotes and recommends the use of it over the built-in
facilities, which are newbie-friendly, while `use-package' is not.

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