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Re: lax matching is not a great default behavior

From: Per Starbäck
Subject: Re: lax matching is not a great default behavior
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2015 10:33:14 +0100

>> > If we are afraid users will hate this default, we can turn it off in
>> > v25.1 and consider making it the default later.
>> That would be good
> I see no real reasons yet for such a decision.  Character folding was
> introduced with the explicit goal of giving users what the other
> text-editing and word-processing environments provide, what they
> therefore are expected to expect.  To revert that decision will take
> more than just "I think it's wrong" kind of posts.

I didn't follow its creation, but I don't think users generally expect
that (yet). (I just checked searches in Gedit and Firefox where there
were no such features, at least not in the versions that are standard
in my operating system distribution.)

Not that I think that matters a lot. I think a good reason to
introduce character folding is because it's a good feature, simple as
that. But it needs to tried out more and get more feedback from
different locales before made into the default.

I may have missed something, but I have not read a single "I think
it's wrong" post. I've read that making the feature available to users
first will make it possible to have a poll before changing a default
that is a massive change, and I've read my own examples of how the
American-centered assumptions are just wrong in some situations. There
is probably more feedback of a similar kind. By enabling this feature
it will be possible to get that feedback, without the outcry that
comes with changing the default. By ironing out the wrinkles this will
be a welcome change when the default later is changed.

You have to realize that this is a *massive* change, even though it
may not feel so for someone who almost only writes in English.

>> Should it be "Ignore accents for search"?
> No, because ignoring accents is just a small part of character
> folding.  Please take a look at character-fold.el for the details.

I know, but it has to be called something. Do you have a better suggestion?

>> > Alternatively, we
>> > could quickly release Emacs 25.2 with character folding turned off if
>> > we see an outcry.  But polling at this time will not be efficient,
>> > IMO.
>> Not at all as good! To "quickly release" something doesn't mean that
>> it is a quick change for users, who may keep using that version for a
>> long time.
> If they are annoyed by a feature, they will upgrade quickly, I think.

That kind of user will rather change their options themselves. I'm not
primarily talking about people installing Emacs themselves, but those
who use a version their system adminstrator or the OS distribution
provider installed for them.

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