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Re: Issues with quail.el

From: Amit Ramon
Subject: Re: Issues with quail.el
Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 20:12:19 +0300


Michael Welsh Duggan <address@hidden> [2018-05-12 00:13 -0400]:

Note, for example, the location of the "Y" and "Z", and the two keys
right of the "L". This layout is the standard for a Hebrew keyboard
layout (the Israeli standard, at least), and this is what a Hebrew
writer would expect when Hebrew input method is set. (you can get it
simply if you don't change your keyboard layout -- assuming it is the
standard one -- and then set input method to Hebrew, and do C-h I.)

The point is that *there are no problems with actual typing* -- you
press Shift with the key that has the "Z" in your drawing (to remove
any possible confusion, this is the key that is right below 6 and 7
and on the center between them), and you'll get "Y".

Strangely, though, that is not what I experience.  Here are the
unshifted keys for me, atari-german, hebrew input mode:


and the shifted ones:


There are a few that don't match, but the Y and Z are not two of them.
This is not the case for you?

This is what you actually get when typing, right? This is also the
case for me, but perhaps I didn't explain the problem clearly enough.

Just to make sure - I assume your physical keyboard is a standard
English (or at least very similar)? (i.e., it is not a real, physical,
atari-german keyboard.)

Also, before going on I suggest that we adopt some "naming
conventions" for keyboard keys, to make communication easier. I'll use
the convention described here:


It is similar to the way used for X Window keyboard maps. So, for
example, the row under the numbers is row D, and the keys are numbered
D1, D2 and so on from left to right, where "q" is on D1, "w" is on D2
and so on.

Lets first do a simple test. When Hebrew input method is active, you
press Shift-D6 and you get "Z" (per your result above). If you now
deactivate the input method ("toggle-input-method", bound by default
to C-\) and press D6 with and without Shift, do you get "y" and "Y"?

If so, then the "strangeness" is due to the fact that the physical
keyboard is not really atari-german -- if the keyboard was
atari-german, D6 in the test would print "z" and "Z".

Emacs receives just characters, it has no idea about the actual
physical keys that are pressed -- this is why we define for quail the
keyboard layout. It enables Emacs to "compute" the physical key that
was pressed by comparing the active keyboard layout with the standard

We can "emulate" an atari-german real keyboard by pressing B1 when we
really mean D6, and vice versa. Then Emacs will receive "z" for
(emulated) "D6" and "y" for (emulated) "B1". Then we should swap the Z
and Y in your typing results.

I hope I managed to clear this out this time, although I'm not sure
how much I succeeded in this.


--- Amit

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