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Re: Some developement questions

From: hw
Subject: Re: Some developement questions
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2018 09:18:03 +0200
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux)

Filipp Gunbin <address@hidden> writes:

> [...]
>> Please try word-wise movement on a German keyboard with these keys.  Do
>> not use the Alt key for this because it has been almost 30 years that it
>> was not possible to use that like ESC at all.  Force yourself to do it
>> for at least two hours; after that, you may use the Alt key and try for
>> another two hours.  Then tell me how useful these key bindindings really
>> are :)
> I've never worked on a German keyboard (but I've just read
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_keyboard_layout).  So what's your
> exact problem with Alt's?
> I do work with Russian keyboard, and I usually use US layout when
> working with Emacs, and have (setq default-input-method
> 'russian-computer) in .emacs, so C-\ switches to it.

I've never used a Russian one.  That might make a nice collectors item

> You should have 2 Ctrl's and 2 Alt's (one of which could be AltGr) on a
> German keyboard, so you should be in same situations as other users.

AltGr is not an Alt key.  There is only *one* Alt key on German
keyboards, and it's on the left side.

They also have AltGr, and that is an entirely different modifier:

keycode  64 = Alt_L Meta_L Alt_L Meta_L
keycode  92 = ISO_Level3_Shift NoSymbol ISO_Level3_Shift

These two keys do entirely different things.  A German keyboard is not
usable for German when you turn AlGr into Alt.  An US keyboard is not
usable for German because it is missing some important keys.

IIRC, Alt is Mod4 and AltGr is Mod5.  Since they invented the additional
useless keys, these keys have all become so small that the useless ones
get in the way and it's difficult to hit what you want.  That's the only
disadvantage of my current keyboard, otherwise it's even better than a
Model M.  If it wasn't for that, I'd be using one of those.

>>> Well, this thread looks like you're describing how you fight with Emacs
>>> defaults.  You could make your own set of customizations and see what
>>> comes out of it.  Maybe others will find them useful.
>> You could always change the default to your preference after it has
>> changed to something people are more likely to know.  You could propose
>> that all web browsers start using 'l' to move backwards in history,
>> too.
> It's really the first time I heard of Alt+arrow bindings.  Maybe that's
> because I don't use keyboard for navigation in a web browser :-)

It's much easier than finding the right icon, especially when they made
the icon so small ...

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