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Re: Why is there no `until' in elisp?

From: Paul Eggert
Subject: Re: Why is there no `until' in elisp?
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 15:33:03 -0700
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1

On 10/17/18 2:49 PM, Garreau, Alexandre wrote:
Le 17/10/2018 à 14h35, Paul Eggert a écrit :
On 10/17/18 2:15 PM, Garreau, Alexandre wrote:
“while” as used in natural language does *not* mean the same thing
[…] And the same is true for "until".
How’s that?

In English, "until Y do X" typically means "keep checking Y while you're doing X and stop the instant that Y becomes true". This means something different from the proposed (until Y X), for the same reason that the common meaning of "while Y do X" in English means something different from (while Y X).

I find “until” be a lot more used in all the languages I
know, including english.

Although that might be true in other languages, it's certainly not true of English. Google, for example, reports about 8 billion hits for "while" but only 2 billion for "until". Admittedly Google hit counts are only vaguely approximate, but still....

The most obvious and only implementation of `unless', I ever seen *until
now* is (while (not cond) body)

"unless" is something different from "until". Anyway, we're not making much progress here; feel free to have the last word.

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