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Re: Proper namespaces in Elisp

From: João Távora
Subject: Re: Proper namespaces in Elisp
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 11:00:47 +0100

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 1:52 AM Vladimir Sedach <address@hidden> wrote:
> "C++ does it wrong" is not an argument for anything. C++ does
> whole-program static compilation, and users of C++ programs do not
> have the need to load and re-define code at run-time, and do not
> regularly pull updates for libraries from MELPA.

But I never said C++ does it wrong, did I? You're saying it.
And I must say I don't understand this common trope about "Language
X does it wrong".  You can google for "is using C++ good or bad" and
you will see the same discussion" (and misunderstandings), complete
with examples about upgrading libraries and such.

Interesting point tho, about C++ programs not using libraries from
MELPA. :-)

> Trying to solve this as a dependency management problem is not going
> to work.

It's you who presented a dependency problem, remember? First
you talked about packages, then you moved on to talking about
libraries, and upgrading some dependency ABC to v1.1. You're
inverting the problem. Yes, packages when used wrong, can make
dependency management suck. But so can any other programming
construct, right?

> > Where, pray tell, is this Village of Dubious Recommendations? :-)
> I first learned about this in ircs://chat.freenode.net/#lisp from the
> many experienced Common Lisp programmers there.

Let me get this straight: people there recommended you
should use :USE for library packages you depend on?

> There are many different solutions, some better than others.

No there aren't, short of _not_ providing namespace merging.
There's no point in explaining this again, I think.

> You can ask other experienced Common Lisp programmers about defining
> packages and the pitfalls of :use. A lot of people there have strong
> opinions and useful recommendations.

I've worked for 15 years day to day with experienced Common Lisp
programmers. You can add my (and I think their) recommendation to
the list: Don't use :USE for packages outside your control, else feel
free to use it. Think of :USE as :MERGE.


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