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Re: Changes for emacs 28

From: Arthur Miller
Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 14:15:43 +0200
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux)

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 16:04:48 +0300
>> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
>> Cc: rekado@elephly.net, ghe@sdf.org, dgutov@yandex.ru, drew.adams@oracle.com,
>>  emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> > Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 14:57:44 +0200
>> > From: Ergus <spacibba@aol.com>
>> > Cc: rekado@elephly.net, ghe@sdf.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org,
>> >    drew.adams@oracle.com, dgutov@yandex.ru
>> > 
>> > The mode will substitute undo with undo-only. This small contradiction
>> > will start a war here.
>> As long as we keep this on the menu and the tool bar, there will be no
>> reason for a "war".
>> > >> Having undo with an undo-redo in the same "state" could be confusing as
>> > >> the normal undo could do also redo IMO.
>> > >
>> > >If the user uses the menus or the tool bar, the confusion will be
>> > >spared, right?
>> > >
>> > If the user expects undo-only behavior; then having our undo will be
>> > confusing because not expecting undo becoming a redo at some point.
>> How can it be confusing that 2 different commands produce different
>> results?  Why isn't it confusing today, when we already have these 2
>> commands?
>> > IMO we should have one (undo) or the other (undo-only + undo-edor) but
>> > not mix them by default.
>> Whether to mix them or not is up to the user.
> To clarify: I'm not opposed to your proposal of having a special mode,
> I just think it's an unnecessary complication, and actually flies in
> the face of our desire to make Emacs easier for newbies: a mode that
> is not turned on by default needs to be discovered and turned on,
> before its benefits can be apparent.  Having these commands available
> by default doesn't have this disadvantage.

They don't need to know that it is a mode and it can be on by default.
Users just need to know it is a "feature" which they can switch off or
on. Being a mode could be just an so called implemetation detail. I
don't see personally what extra a mode brings in, but when it comes to
discoverability it can still be "just a feature".

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