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Re: Context menus and mouse-3 [was: Changes for emacs 28]

From: Ergus
Subject: Re: Context menus and mouse-3 [was: Changes for emacs 28]
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 10:10:55 +0200

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 01:25:35AM +0000, Drew Adams wrote:
You're all over the map, Ergus, arguing abstractly, not
to the point - bringing in undo-redo;

This was just an examples of discussions that have been for years in
this mailing list and changes that the legacy users have opposed and
vetoed with the argument of the "Emacs way is better" (like
delete-selection-mode, transient-mark-mode and so on).

behavior; hiding the context menu behind C-mouse-3,
which also doesn't work in a terminal

This is so far the point of the discussion.

(mouse3.el uses mouse-3);

It is not there and not easy to install for newcomers, normal users, or
toggle enabled when we open with emacs -Q, or working in another

Emacs is supposed to be an editor, not a box from IKEA to assemble your
own one by hand because people go to IKEA because they consider is
cheaper not because they think it is better. If other companies offer
the same furniture than IKEA, assembled and bring them to home at the
same price then IKEA will probably close in a couple of years.

"moving the mouse to the toolbar to copy after
the selection" (huh? what's that about?);

That's the only alternative we give to the mouse users for coping/paste:
select with the mouse mixing clicks go to the [tool,menu]bar and click
copy then go to the place, click, toolbar->paste instead of
select, right-click->copy, go, right-click->paste.

"M-w and C-y
dont share any key like C-c/C-v"; "we need the two hand
to undo instead of C-z" ;...

Your previous argument was that pressing \click and shift+click\ for
selecting was worst than \3 clicks + right mouse click\. So I just showed
that there are worst inconsistencies/in-ergonomic/complicated bindings
for other common and frequent actions and nobody (including me) cares.

Here is another: do you think that killing is more frequent (to have it
ready in double right click) than copy?

(two hands to undo?)

Yes: C-/ and M-_ requires two hands while C-x u is a bit long to repeat.


The impetus for this discussion was expectations
of new users to get a context menu on `mouse-3'.
(But newbies are not the only reason for such a

A context menu is useful for discoverability, including
by seasoned Emacs users (we are all discovering some
parts of Emacs).  It should be easily configurable by
program and by users, adaptable for any mode or other
context.  `mouse-3' is a good place for it, and not
only because that's where newbies expect it.


Emacs mouse selection, including extension & deletion,
are also useful.  Both this and a `mouse-3' menu are
possible, with no sacrifice.

Not sure there is a consistent way for this.

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