Re: [External] : Re: indent-tabs-mode default [was: Representation of the Emacs userbase on emacs-devel]

[Po Lu]

Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

> Regardless of debate on whether there are new users or not, evidence
> indicates those who want spaces and those who want tabs are roughly
> equally divided. Therefore, half those 'old' users are required to
> change the setting regardless of what the default is. All your
> argument seems to come down to is that your happy with the status quo
> and don't want it to change because that is in-line with your
> preference. That is fine, but is no stronger an argument than arguing
> for the default to be changed - in this case, changing or not changing
> based solely on level of annoyance is simply insufficient.

So, if the default is changed, the other half of the "roughly equally
divided" portion of the userbase will also have to change their
settings, which means the entire userbase will have changed that
settings.

Which is more pleasant?  To have the half of the userbase who have, for
the most part, already done so, change their settings, or to have the
other half of the userbase who have mostly not done so change their
settings?

> I would suggest very few people have ever fully read the manual before
> using Emacs. Besides, the best way to read the manual is with Emacs,
> so you already have a 'chicken and egg' situations. Furthermore, the
> fact the default was already at the setting you wanted would indicate
> you never needed to find this information and therefore are not in a
> strong position to argue whether that is easy or not. On the other
> hand, when I started using Emacs I did need to change the default and
> I do recall it took some effort to work out how to do that - enough
> effort to be annoying. As already stated, annoyance is an insufficient
> criteria in this case because the two sides are roughly
> equal. Understanding the expectations of new users may change that
> balance and is therefore worth considering.

The manual is available in print, and downloadable online in HTML,
PostScript and PDF format.  While the Emacs Info reader may be
convenient, there is nothing preventing users from reading the manual in
any of those other formats, or even an alternative Info reader, before
reading the manual in Emacs, so I don't see how that is a problem.

Emacs also has an Easy Customization interface.  Even without reading
the manual, one can simply search "indent tabs" inside the Easy
Customization interface, and reach the option.

If that fails, an apropos for 'indent tabs' turns up indent-tabs-mode as
the first result.

And if ignorance of the manual really is a problem, then how about
finding a way to publicize the manual?  For instance, a weekly post
about the manual in comp.emacs, or r/emacs, or whatever happens to be
popular ATM.

There also seem to be cross-editor solutions for configuring these
options on a per-file or a per-project basis, such as editor-config.  If
Emacs gains support for these solutions, they could potentially
alleviate these problems in their entirety.