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Re: Abysmal state of GTK build

From: Rob Browning
Subject: Re: Abysmal state of GTK build
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 14:27:05 -0500

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Po Lu [2022-08-21 22:16:04] wrote:
>> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>>> Most users don't choose the toolkits -- they use whatever the
>>> distribution has configured.  And since most of those use a variation on
>>> Gnome Shell, it's natural for the distributions to use the Gtk toolkit
>>> for Emacs.
>> Can't we shout at them to do something else? I've seen the Debian Emacs
>> packager here somewhere.
> Indeed, Rob does pay attention to what we say.  He also has to pay
> attention to what other people say.  We all think we're right.
>         Stefan "using Emacs with Lucid, mostly"

...for some version of "pay attention".  I certainly care, but I'm also
often swamped[1], and yes there are competing concerns.

For what it's worth, I don't personally have any strong, principled
stand regarding what the default toolkit should be right now (via "apt
install emacs").  If I recall correctly, I think I may have switched it
to gtk years back when it looked like that was the upstream preference.

Personally, I haven't installed emacs-gtk much in years.  I switched to
emacs-lucid nearly exclusively a good while back because I hit the well
known X forwarding bugs back when that was important to me.  (I also
turn off menu/tool/scroll bars, so I don't see a lot of the
toolkit-specific bits.)

Also for what it's worth, I am definitely inclined to favor upstream
preferences (in general) when I know what they are, resources
permitting, etc.

[1] ...and while I should be subscribed to emacs-devel, I don't read it
    right now; noticed this thread because someone pinged me.
Rob Browning
rlb @defaultvalue.org and @debian.org
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