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Re: Brand new clojure support in Emacs ;-)

From: João Távora
Subject: Re: Brand new clojure support in Emacs ;-)
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2023 16:51:28 +0100
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13)

Danny Freeman <danny@dfreeman.email> writes:

> With that in mind, I won't stand in the way of a new clojure editing
> mode for Emacs, in fact I suggested enabling lisp mode for clojure files
> somewhere else in this thread. However, I will advocate for not
> hijacking the name clojure-mode that has been in active use for 15
> years.
> There are a lot of users of clojure-mode, and there is no telling how a
> builtin mode with the same name might break people's configurations and
> workflows. Not to mention what it would do to the various packages that
> (require 'clojure-mode), which those same developers use to get their
> work done.

I think there is still a fair amount of exaggerated alarm over the
simple issue of Emacs providing a major mode for Clojure in some future
version.  Emacs traditionally provides major modes for every major
programming language.  There is no shred of evidence of any inclination
of the Emacs project to sow chaos in the workflows of Clojure
programmers just for the heck of it.

Of course the naming issue is real, but deciding on it is one of the
very last things to address on and it depends on what the new mode would
be able to do.  So don't put the bulls in front of the carriage.  Not to
mention there is lots of prior-art for technical means to manage
clashing names.  Not only in Emacs, but most everywhere.  For example:
if I ask my system package manager to install "java" I get a number of
possibilities.  None of these options is more "java" than the other.  I
get to choose which one is fits my needs better.  Symlinks to
executables and libraries get setup appropriately, etc.

So, there is no "hijacking" at stake because there isn't (or at least
there shouldn't be) the concept of property or ownership of a name,
especially something as generic as "Clojure mode".  Plus, what matters
to Clojure programmers generally isn't the really the NonGNU provenance
of their daily working tools.  If anything, I've seen evidence of the
contrary, witnessing some users switch to Emacs's core facilities even
if they are _less_ featureful than third-party alternatives, _precisely_
because they trust the Emacs project's stability and longevity.  I've
seen this with Flymake and most recently with Eglot.

What _really_ matters to users is what they can do with their Clojure

With that in mind, and since you sincerely state you want to move this
discussion in a productive direction, what are -- in your opinion -- the
5 most important features supported by the the NonGNU Clojure mode and
the brand new NonGNU Clojure TreeSitter mode?  As a Clojure programmer,
do you personally use LSP?  What are the LSP and nonLSP commands you
find yourself invoking most often.  Can you say if CIDER is prepared to
work with major modes other than the NonGNU Clojure mode?


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