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Re: New Package for NonGNU-ELPA: clojure-ts-mode

From: Jens Schmidt
Subject: Re: New Package for NonGNU-ELPA: clojure-ts-mode
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 22:16:58 +0200
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.14.0

On 2023-09-02  03:51, Richard Stallman wrote:
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> The problems you've reported with emacs-devel seem significant.
> Thanks for describing them clearly.
>   >   These text entry boxes on Github et al. definitely
>   > feel easier and more inviting to use.
> Github is a non-starter for the GNU Project for moral reasons: it
> requires users to run nonfree JavaScript.  We can't direct users
> there.

Github was just one example of these forges, on some other thread
a self-hosted Gitlab has been mentioned.  SourceHut advertises
its JavaScript-freeness, and while they currently "only" have a
mail-based workflow, some web front-end seems to be in their

> But we shouldn't neglect the email problems you've repoeted.

Most of the problems I described stem from the fact that I have
been determined to use my readily set-up Thunderbird as email
client also for Emacs development mail, and not one of the Emacs
alternatives.  But I feel this is really an uphill battle and I
will probably migrate to Gnus at least for my Emacs development

> I think we could eliminate the inconveniences of email this way.

If there are any ... I could try keeping track of my experiences
when I change to Gnus.

>   > Exactly.  TBH I still have to assemble courage to post here.  All these
>   > top dogs with their super-dry yet elaborate communication style are
>   > surely, um, intimidating.
> That is not a good thing.  Maybe we can continue on the path of the Kind
> Communication Guidelines (https://gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html)
> to make emacs-devel less intimidating.
> Would you like to start accumulating a list of examples that do,
> or did in the past, feel intimidating to you?  We could learn ommething
> from that.

There aren't any particular examples, really.  Let's try a comparison
instead, slightly exaggerating:

- On help-gnu-emacs/gmane.emacs.help I feel like on a market place,
  chatting to others;
- When opening a bug on bug-gnu-emacs, I feel like at the doctor's;
- But on emacs-devel I feel like in a temple with the priests scrutinely
  examining me and weighing my words, while the crowd watches.

> First step, we could set up a web page that explais the conventions
> in a clear and kind way, so that when we ask newcomers to follow them,
> we won't make per feel bad.

Exactly.  I'm not sure about the relationship between Emacs development
and the Emacs Wiki, but there you have at least something already that
could be extended: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsMailingLists.

And I concur with Ahmed in that other reply to your mail: Emacs
development could need some more "social network" aspects, IMO.  Not
only to follow a particular developer, but also to know her or him a
bit better.  That would take out that priest-in-a-temple feeling a
bit, I guess.  Drew Adams, though not an Emacs maintainer, has a nice
page on the EmacsWiki, for example:

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