Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove

[Po Lu]

Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org> writes:

> You're overthinking this. C-x 4 is for stuff relating to windows. Of
> course that's the right place to put window movement commands. There's
> no other logical place.

Who said so?  I see nothing to this effect in ctl-x-4-map or its
(vanishingly scant) documentation, which map is composed entirely of
commands answering to the description I gave.

> You can choose to make that binding. I don't think it's a good
> default. Adding a reasonable default does not hurt you.

It does.  I explained how it does, and you declined to acknowledge my
explanation, or, if you disagreed, openly state your grounds for
disagreement.

> Ffap is a fringe feature. Window movement is fundamental to the whole
> system.

A fringe feature with a VC history thrice as large as windmove's,
and 1.5x as many mentions in help-gnu-emacs.  Window movement is
a fundamental requirement that is perfectly satisfied by other-window
and mouse commands, and the paucity of windmove users speaks for itself,
when they are fewer than those of such a "fringe feature" as ffap.

> Again, you're making a general argument against adding any new
> bindings whatsoever.  I don't think that's a good thing.  The very
> same argument would have applied to the vc and project default
> bindings.

It is a general argument to be _circumspect_ in introducing new
keybindings.  The question of relevance is, Whether a proposed binding
is of sufficient importance or located in a sufficiently discreet
position to nullify the disadvantages cited in the argument.  Windmove
is not, nor are the proposed keybindings.

> So now we're going from keybindings to sociology? K.

What I see is that I argue in good faith and you respond by quibbling
sardonically.  Hardly a shining example of good software development
practice.

>>they decide, so that the obligation of exercising this privilege wisely
>>and sparingly devolves on _ourselves_, who should constantly be at pains
>>to earn and deserve this respect.  With all due respect, you are just
>>one user, and though many have concurred with your choice, yet none of
                       ------------------------------------      -------
>>them have previously created the same set of bindings as yours.
  --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes they have. Check the thread. In fact, it was Stefan who
> resurrected the thread in the first place.

Nowhere has Stefan M mentioned which bindings he personally uses for
Windmove.

> You are, in fact, though ,making a general argument, then suggesting
> it applies only to this one matter.

You are, rather, dealing in absolutes.  I am not responsible for your
failing to understand that, when, where, and how one set of
disadvantages might be outweighed by a corresponding set of advantages.

> That's called "special pleading" and is a structurally invalid kind of
> discourse.

Special pleading is claiming an unsubstantiated exception to a general
rule.  This, by contrast, is the application of a general rule to a
specific issue to which it is material.

> I think Doom Emacs and Spacemacs are in bounds. They exist because
> core Emacs has been insufficiently responsive to needs of real world
> users, and this thread is this problem in microcosm.

More oratory.

> There is a difference between changing an existing binding (e.g. C-z)
> and installing a new binding where none currently exists. Merging the
> two scenarios doesn't lead the conversation in a good place.

It is rather the users who are affected by this distinction than
ourselves.  But you are conflating the scenario where the user creates a
binding in an unoccupied location with that where we do so, after which,
and for the users, that location is removed from the scope of the
former.