Re: Emacs Newbie Info Pages

[Summer Emacs]

On Sep 12, 2024, at 21:17, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:

(Friendly reminder: Please don't forget to CC everyone when responding,
otherwise some people might miss your response!)

Thanks. I’ll do that. =)

Good question: The “one page” I’m envisioning is like another default
splash page with links to the various sections and an easy return
point (such as M-x newbie).

My point is just that if it is not a manual, with a table of contents,
an index, etc. then there might not be much of a point in using Info.  A
M-x newbie command that populates a help buffer might be just as useful,
and easier to maintain.

Okay. I didn’t know there was a difference but sure. (See, not a dev. Thank you for clearing that up =) )

I think some examples would be a good idea. You may not realize this
but if I throw a (setq ) in the face of a newbie with little
explanation, we might never see them again. My suggestion would be to
include some bare-bones configs with lots of comments and what
everything means, including the comments.

I guess we are thinking of different kinds of newbies here.  That being
said, an experiment I have been thinking about but haven't implemented
yet is a .ini-parser for Emacs that could load a Emacs configuration
from a file like 

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
[package avy]
set all-windows all-frames
bind C-z avy-goto-word-1

[package auctex]
set TeX-master dwim
hook TeX-language-de-hook site/use-german
rebind RET newline 

[package bash-completion]
(bash-completion-setup)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

where the common patterns are simplified and made safe (e.g. the "set"
directive wouldn't evaluate) but still remains powerful, as you can
intersperse lisp code.  If I ever get around to finishing this -- or
anyone else decides to steal the idea ;) -- then adding this to the core
and loading ~/.emacs.d/init.conf if it exists might be a useful thing to
mention in a newbie manual.

Well, since I keep hearing “Emacs is for everyone” and “Free software is for everyone”, I’m imagining some of my friends: people who use their phones and iPads, Tik Tok, iMessage, WhatsApp, and who don’t ever look at a computer unless they have to at work or in class. People like me who didn’t know how to do much of anything other than open a file, write in it, click a few buttons, and send it off in an Email. Those people. Regular people. People who don’t know what a function or a variable is. People who don’t know what a computer language is and think that your use of Emacs makes you a genius. My people. =) You know, “Everyone” that’s left  outside of the community. =)

You have to get a newbie to understand what M-x eww is. “Just RTFM”
isn’t the same anymore. Veronica just did a video on how “The Manual”
has changed over the years:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lUiUQOvRHQ (this should be required
viewing for anyone writing help files today - they even used to
explain what the space bar is used for.) My point is: Emacs, while
powerful, while understandable by those with a modicum of time and
maybe a slight bit of computer experience, is not newbie friendly. I’m
not aiming to hold the hands of developers who are used to looking up
functions on the fly; I’m proposing we have a page with sub-pages of
easily understood material for non-developers and coders. I also am
not proposing that we “change” Emacs in any way - I love Emacs the way
it is. It’s just want an instantly available newbie section. It’s not
a huge ask, right? =)

I am not disagreeing, I just want to qualify this with my own impression
that a big problem nowadays is that people just don't want to read, no
matter what you write.  An indication for this might be that when I
tried out VSCode a few months ago, and I tried to open up a manual to
study the program properly, all I could find was a series of videos with
some light commentary.  And I suspect most people don't even watch them?

This is true. I’m trying to reach them anyway. =)

-- 
Philip Kaludercic on siskin

Summer Emacs.