Re: Keybindings and changing keyboard layout [was: Writting Greek in Emacs]

[Max Nikulin]

On 23/09/2024 12:54, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> I haven't yet found the time to read into bug#43830, on the road ATM.

<https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-11/msg01237.html>
"wish: right alt/meta to switch keyboard layout while pressed"
linked from this bug is a more detailed discussion.

Earlier I was aware only of

<https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-05/msg00031.html>
"Keybindings in non-Latin layout"

Another thread from 2021 for completeness:
<https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/sgqeci$en3$1@ciao.gmane.io/>
"not quite understanding input methods"

> On Sun, Sep 22, 2024 at 06:29:17PM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> > As a workaround, I have a tiny tool that is invoked in response to
> > ISO_<First|Last|Prev|Next>_Group as global shortcuts and if the active
> > window is Emacs then it forces "us" layout and sends another unique key (to
> > switch Emacs input method) using XTest extension.

> Ugh. They all don't feel pretty. I'm tempted to just put that into my muscle
> memory and just switch keyboard layout when necessary. It's just one keystroke
> more, and people with some vi experience have a "mode switch" place in their
> brains anyway :-)

A similar problem exists in Vim as well. It has its own "keyboard 
layout" switch C-^ (:set keymap), :set langmap to alleviate the issue 
with alternative layout active at the XKB layer, and various tricks to 
change XKB layout on switch from insert to normal mode
<https://github.com/lyokha/vim-xkbswitch>

My perception is that heavy usage of modifiers and multikey bindings in 
Emacs outweighs necessity to escape from insert mode in Vim, so 
switching keyboard for any command is more annoying.

On 21/09/2024 12:40, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> Surprisingly, some applications seem to magically "cope" in some way. In
> Firefox, CTRL-τ opens a new tab (as CTRL-t would do under a Latin layout).
> But this doesn't really count: Firefox has just a few useful keybindings
> and the whole model actually discourages using them, while Emacs has
> a very rich set of bindings which is at the core of its user interaction.

Most of applications, including Firefox, use Alt+something to access 
menus and accelerator keys for selecting menu items. It requires 
switching keyboard layout to match application locale and it is pain. 
Only some hotkeys work with both keyboard layouts.