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Re: My resignation from Emacs development
From: |
Andrea Corallo |
Subject: |
Re: My resignation from Emacs development |
Date: |
Sat, 23 Nov 2024 17:18:58 -0500 |
User-agent: |
Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) |
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: Madhu <enometh@meer.net>
>> Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2024 12:54:01 +0530
>>
>> * Adam Porter <169c6564-4722-4338-a049-5f8f3ce69394@alphapapa.net> :
>> Wrote on Thu, 21 Nov 2024 23:35:35 -0600:
>>
>> > But it is not okay for you to blame Stefan for your decision to leave.
>> > As you know, in the past he served as the Emacs maintainer, and now he
>> > remains a prominent contributor, and a maintainer of some parts of
>> > Emacs, but not of the overall project. So if you can't abide some
>> > technical decisions that have been made by Stefan M., you ought to take
>> > them up with Eli, Andrea, and Stefan K. And if they disagree with you
>> > and won't overturn those decisions, and you decide to leave, you ought
>> > to ascribe that responsibility simply and honestly, not by publicly
>> > defaming Stefan M. like this. It does not behoove you, nor the GNU
>> > Emacs project, to act this way.
>>
>> The correct response to these complaints would be if Eli and the
>> maintainers would reign in Stefan and address the genuine concerns
>> rather than gerrymandering on with the present course.
>>
>> This again purposely misses the point and does not address the isssue
>> raised by the resignation. That there are problems with Stefans
>> intentions which are not as stated which are of concern to emacs
>> development as a whole, these are being swept under the floor. There are
>> repeated concerns that the way Stefan is leading development us
>> destroying the value of core which RMS brought to us from the 70s. This
>> is being set aside through bulldozering narrative.
>
> When we see such problems, they are _never_ swept under the carpet.
> On the contrary, the reaction is usually immediate and quite harsh,
> including (but not limited to) reverting the offending changes in a
> non-negotiable way.
>
> The reason this didn't happen with Stefan Monnier is that at least I
> don't see any particular problem of this kind in what Stefan does (and
> did during the decades of his very active involvement in the project).
> The Emacs model of development is that we completely trust leading
> contributors to install changes without discussing them. This trust
> works well and keeps our development moving forward very fast,
> although sometimes there are good-faith mistakes, which then require
> discussions a-posteriori, and sometimes (rarely) end up with changes
> being reverted or radically modified. All of the leading
> contributors, including yours truly, have sometimes, rarely, made such
> mistakes. Stefan's record is not different in this regard from any
> other's. The changes he installed in March indeed should have been
> discussed more, but I don't expect us rejecting them as result.
> Moreover, Alan himself made such a mistake when he installed his
> cc-mode.el change back in May, the change which led to bug#74339, and
> eventually to this sad result (because Alan staunchly opposed to
> modifying his change from back then, even though the modifications
> proposed to him would not affect the effect of his change in any way).
>
> So there's nothing here that requires any "reigning in", just the
> normal practice of Emacs development, which hasn't changed in decades,
> because we think it fits well the way this community is structured,
> and the nature and the vast span of expertise needed to develop an
> maintain Emacs.
>
> I cannot speak for Stefan Kangas and Andrea, but I'd be very surprised
> if they didn't agree with what I say above. We definitely don't agree
> that the many changes developed and installed by Stefan are
> "destroying the value of core which RMS brought to us from the 70s."
> Quite the opposite.
Thanks Eli for being so clear on this, this is indeed absolutely agreed.
Andrea
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development, (continued)
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development, Stefan Kangas, 2024/11/22
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development, Alan Mackenzie, 2024/11/22
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development, Stefan Kangas, 2024/11/22
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development, Eli Zaretskii, 2024/11/22
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development, Richard Stallman, 2024/11/24
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development, Alan Mackenzie, 2024/11/26
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development,
Andrea Corallo <=
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development, Alan Mackenzie, 2024/11/22
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development, Adam Porter, 2024/11/22
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development, Daniel Radetsky, 2024/11/26
- My resignation from Emacs development, Christopher Dimech, 2024/11/26
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development, Adam Porter, 2024/11/26
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development, Daniel Radetsky, 2024/11/27
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development, Christopher Dimech, 2024/11/27
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development, Richard Stallman, 2024/11/29
- Re: My resignation from Emacs development, Eli Zaretskii, 2024/11/30
- Discuss new features/enhancements or large changes for users in emacs-devel [was: My resignation from Emacs development], Drew Adams, 2024/11/30