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Re: [Orgmode] Re: keys and command name info

From: Andreas Röhler
Subject: Re: [Orgmode] Re: keys and command name info
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:23:49 +0200
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de; rv: Gecko/20100711 Thunderbird/3.0.6

Am 11.08.2010 12:05, schrieb Carsten Dominik:

On Aug 9, 2010, at 9:28 PM, Dan Davison wrote:

Dan Davison <address@hidden> writes:

Gregor Zattler <address@hidden> writes:

Hi Andreas, org-mode developers,
* Andreas Burtzlaff <address@hidden> [09. Aug. 2010]:
Carsten Dominik <address@hidden> writes:
I have put a version of the manual as modified by Andreas here:


Not all the command names are in there, but quite a few are.
I'd like to hear from more people

- if they would like to have the names there (i.e. if it would
help them finding a command)

I would like the command names in the manual.

- Emacs-lisp has a lovely tradition of naming functions *very*
descriptively and not being afraid to use long names in the interests
of accuracy. It's a shame to lose all that by displaying only key
sequences. It's a linguistic world of its own and I like being exposed
to it.
- While one can do C-h k, that's not the same as the way one learns the
function names by skimming the manual

Also, it does not add length to the HTML version of the manual, because
the key sequences are already on a line of their own. And the same is
true for a certain proportion of the pdf entries (when the key sequence
is long, then it seems to go on its own line).

- if the position (first thing in the command description)
is right, or if it would be better to have it
- last thing in the description
- or after the first sentence, this is how the GNUS manual
does it.

I definitely would want them out on a line of their own with the key
sequence. I liked the right-aligned model.

Or if not right-aligned, is it possible not to have the comma? Maybe a
different font?

I also like the position on the key line best. So if there is a
general agreement that we should get the names in, this would be my
location as well. I knot that this is different from what the emacs
and gnus manuals do - but I still think that a solution like this would
be better.

Andreas, can you be bothered to rework the patch?

Unfortunately I have no idea if/how the right-aligned model could be
made to
work. So I think the safest way to do this would be to introduce the macro,
and we can then work on the macro to get the formatting right, and also
to do the
key and function index stuff fully automatically.

Here is my proposal for now:

@macro orgcmd{key,command}
@kindex \key\
@findex \command\
@item \key\ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @r{(address@hidden)}
@end macro

And then define keys/commands like this:

@table @kbd
@address@hidden, org-cycle}
Here follows the description of the command
@end table

- Carsten

OK, I'm on it next days.




Having the function names in the manual at all makes it look a bit
overloaded and might lose us a couple of newbies, I think.
Personally, I
would not have use for it.

If the names are included in the manual I strongly object to them
at the beginning of the first sentence. The fixed starting column
of the
sentences becomes variable and that makes it hard to skim through for
those who don't want to read the function names.

+1 for the same reasons.

This is especially true for paragraphs like those:

C-c C-n (outline-next-visible-heading) Next heading.
C-c C-p (outline-previous-visible-heading) Previous heading.
C-c C-f (org-forward-same-level) Next heading same level.
C-c C-b (org-backward-same-level) Previous heading same level.
C-c C-u (outline-up-heading) Backward to higher level heading.
C-c C-j (org-goto) Jump to a different place without changing the
current outline
visibility. Shows the document structure in a temporary buffer,
where you can
use the following keys to find your destination:

What about having them in the same line as the keybinding but
aligned to
the right?

`C-c [' org-agenda-file-to-front
Add current file to the list of agenda files. The file is added to
the front of the list. If it was already in the list, it is moved
to the front. With prefix arg, file is added/moved to the end.

It would make the manual longer, but at least it looks clean.
It is easy to neglect the function names if one wants, and just as
to skim through them.

+1 for the same reasons.
But Andreas Röhlers original variant is IMHO even better:

| [ ... ]
| `C-c [', org-agenda-file-to-front
| Add current file to the list of agenda files. The file is added to
| the front of the list. If it was already in the list, it is moved
| to the front. With prefix Argument, file is added/moved to the end.

Yes, but let's lose the extra comma.

`C-c [' org-agenda-file-to-front

Here the command name serves as a kind of a heading, it's easy
to search these locations while at the same time it's easy to
skim over the pages and not bother with the command names.

My preference:

1. as in Andreas Röhlers original ASCII rendering
2. as in Andreas Burtzlaffs ASCII rendering
3. not at all
4. as in the test manual

Just me 2¢. Either way, org-mode is great. Gregor

P.S.: Some of the command names don't help that much:

C-c C-c (org-ctrl-c-ctrl-c) If there is a checkbox (see Section 5.6
page 46) in the item line, toggle the state of the checkbox. If not,
this command
makes sure that all the items on this list level use the same
bullet. Furthermore,
if this is an ordered list, make sure the numbering is OK.
C-c - (org-ctrl-c-minus) Cycle the entire list level through the
different item-
ize/enumerate bullets (`-', `+', `*', `1.', `1)'). With a numeric
prefix argument
N, select the Nth bullet from this list. If there is an active
region when calling
this, all lines will be converted to list items. If the first line
already was a list
item, any item markers will be removed from the list. Finally, even
without an
active region, a normal line will be converted into a list item.
C-c * (org-ctrl-c-star) Turn a plain list item into a headline (so
that it becomes
a subheading at its location). See Section 2.5 [Structure editing],
page 7, for a
detailed explanation.

But even this gives a clue in how it all works.

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