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## Re: [O] A Microsoftesque detail in org

 From: Titus von der Malsburg Subject: Re: [O] A Microsoftesque detail in org Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 14:43:48 -0700

On 2015-05-16 Sat 12:00, Rasmus wrote:
> Hi Titus,
>
> Titus von der Malsburg <address@hidden> writes:
>
>> just tried the patch and while I still find it weird to change the
>> meaning of RET, this solution doesn’t get in my way as much as the
>> previous solution did.
>
> Try to:
>
>     (with-temp-buffer (org-mode) (describe-mode)).
>
> A lot of keys have been orgified.
>
> At the extreme of the anti-org-whatever-key line of though, how would
> org-table work?

Let me first say that I think your latest patch is a good compromise and
I could totally live with that solution.

Having said that, I have very mixed feelings about how org behaves in
tables.  I’m a heavy user of org mode and feel highly comfortable with
every aspect of it.  Tables are the only exception.  They trip me up
again and again with behavior that I perceive as counter-intuitive.  The
problem is that org-mode is not the only citizen in the Emacs ecosystem
and therefore it matters more how the rest of Emacs behaves than how
Microsoft products or other outliners behave.  For instance, when I put
to cursor on a headline in a markdown document and press RET, I get a
newline at that position.  If I put the cursor on a headline in a LaTeX
document and press RET, again I get a newline.  The same goes for
subject lines in emails (message-mode) and many other similar
situations.  All these things are conceptually headlines and should
therefore behave the same way.  Anything else would create unnecessary
cognitive load for the user.  Since org-mode for many years used to
behave like all the other modes that I mentioned, it is not accurate to
call this position anti-org.  … my 5 cents.

Have a nice weekend!

Titus

>
>> One minor cosmetic issue:
>>
>> * TODO foo bar                                                      :test:
>>
>> When I RET between foo and bar, the tag moves to the left.  I think it
>> would be nicer if it would stay where it was.
>
> Good observation.  I don't even know how to make a tab character in Emacs
> so I blissfully assumed them away.
>
> Anyway, this should be "fixed" now, though it will religiously adhere to
> org-tags-column which, at least for my setup, your example does not.  I
> think this is acceptable 'cause we also need to consider the example
>
> * TODO foo \phi\delta
>  :test:
>
> Which is pretty hard due to the overlays (display-width is two, but real
> length is more).
>
> Could you try this version of the patch and see if you find it more
> satisfactory?
>
> Thanks,
> Rasmus



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