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[O] bug#28263: bug#28263: 24.5; Org: `C-c LETTER' keys

From: Nicolas Goaziou
Subject: [O] bug#28263: bug#28263: 24.5; Org: `C-c LETTER' keys
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 10:24:18 +0100
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.3 (gnu/linux)


Drew Adams <address@hidden> writes:

> It's my opinion of what Org mode _should_ do.

That's what I meant.

> And it coincides with what other libraries do.

This doesn't prove the model is right.

> And it fits what the manual suggests.

Unfortunately, the manual suggests nothing. I think that's the main
issue here.

> Your opinion is apparently that Emacs (in the Org-mode
> doc) should recommend that users sacrifice those keys
> to Org.  We disagree about that.

Not at all.

I want _Emacs_ (not the Elisp manual) to tell users about so-called user
reserved keys and what are their benefits. Since this isn't the case,
Org manual takes care of this.

> You want Emacs to (1) tell users that these keys are
> reserved for them to bind, BUT also to (2) recommend
> that if they use Org mode (which most users probably
> do now) then they should bind them to Org commands.

Not at all.

We recommend to bind globally available keys, but only give an example
on what the binding should look like. We even invite users to modify
them to their own liking.

> Org mode is not only a 3rd-party library.  It is
> now part of GNU Emacs.  All the more reason to be
> nice to users.

Note that we are really disagreeing about the definition of being nice
to the users. I'm convinced we both want to be nice to them.

> It should be fine and enough to leave off the part
> about ", like the ones reserved ... #+end_src."
> That part's not needed for users to understand
> that if they want global behavior then they can
> bind global keys - which is the only message you
> need to get across about those commands.

I searched the Emacs manual about "global keys" (menu, concept index,
regexp). I miserably failed. As a user, what can I do now?

> Perhaps someday someone else will finish the job by
> removing the manual's suggestion that they should
> make that sacrifice, "for a better experience".

I will happily remove the part you consider to be offending -- whereas
I consider it to be helpful -- once we can point users towards
appropriate information within the Emacs manual. Would you like to
report a bug about it?


Nicolas Goaziou                                                0x80A93738

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