Re: [O] [RFC] Document level property drawer

[Gustav Wikström]

Hi again Adam,

> IIUC, your proposal would work like this:
> 
> #+BEGIN_SRC org
>   :PROPERTIES:
>   :CATEGORY: Gamma
>   :END:
>   
>   # Category here is "Gamma"
> 
>   ,* Node 1
> 
>   # Category here is "Gamma"
> 
>   ,* Node 2
>   :PROPERTIES:
>   :CATEGORY: Beta
>   :END:
> 
>   # Category here is "Beta"
> 
>   ,#+CATEGORY: Alpha
> #+END_SRC

You understand correctly. In that case precedence would kick in since
a category is defined using both a category keyword and a category
inside the document property drawer. The example above is mostly
theoretical since there is no use-case for having category set on
document level using both conventions. If the example above was a real
document I'd suggest removing either the category keyword or the
category property from the document property drawer.

> In Org, some keywords are special, like #+CATEGORY.  For many years,
> such keywords have had file-wide effects regardless of their placement
> in the file.  IIUC, your proposal would change that, and that would
> still be a major, breaking change.

This seems disingenuous. In no way is this a major, breaking change.
No document you have today will break by the introduction of this.
The only thing changing is if you *actively* create a document level
property drawer and choose to enter a property there that you already
have defined in the same document, using a property keyword.

Keywords that previously had file-wide effects will continue to have
that. That's not removed. So you must have missunderstood something
here.

I understand you dislike the preference of letting the property drawer
have a higher precedance than property keywords, if the same property
is defined in both ways. I've already argued why I think that is the
sane choice to make. But having that precedance doesn't break anything
since you cannot define a property drawer on document level today.

> > If you think of the document as an outline, something Org mode is all
> > about, it makes sense to also think of things before the first
> > headline as "node level 0". And with that way of conceptually thinking
> > of the document it makes perfect sense to have a property drawer fixed
> > at the top - in the same way as it is required for all other node
> > levels.
> 
> What you're proposing is actually a fundamental change to the way Org
> documents are interpreted.  Org documents are not currently an outline,
> just a series of elements which may include an outline.  Text and
> elements before a first heading are not part of a node, they're just
> text and elements in the document.

I don't agree here. What I'm proposing in this patch doesn't change
the fundament of an Org mode document. I'd rather say it enhances the
fundament! Since the outline to a large extent is the fundament! The
following quote is from the documentation - Chapter 2, Document
Structure:

  #+begin_quote
  Org is an outliner.  Outlines allow a document to be organized in a
  hierarchical structure, which, least for me, is the best representation
  of notes and thoughts.
  #+end_quote

Thus, saying Org documents are not currently an outline again feels
disingenuous and at this point I struggle to take your comments
seriously.

Regards
Gustav