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Re: citations: org-cite vs org-ref 3.0

From: Bruce D'Arcus
Subject: Re: citations: org-cite vs org-ref 3.0
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 12:14:03 -0400

On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 11:23 AM Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> You even have managed to convince me that, besides adding missing style
> >> names, some existing ones should be adjusted. noauthor/bare for citeyear
> >> example makes for me much more sense ...
> >
> > This does need some attention, but there are wrinkles here.
> >
> > Citeyear is specific to author-date styles, while noauthor is intended
> > to be more general.
> Anyway citation style is rather specific for a particular CSL style. I
> tried some styles:
> https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/ieee.csl
> https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/american-physics-society.csl
> nature.csl science.csl and for all these styles even "author" is
> meaningless since they are numeric styles.

Yes. I think it's more relevant in author-date to note styles. I
believe biblatex has a command relevant here, but Denis knows biblatex
better than I.

> So it is not more general. Switching CSL style means necessity to update
> styles in each citations (unless it is possible to specify global or
> per-cite mapping).

Not really. Arguably the most important style is "text", which applies
to any output style; author-date, note-based, numeric.

When you start getting into some of the others, the range of styles a
given style may apply to shrinks.

But you might say author-date styles are pretty dependent on such
local citation modification. If those are output to a style that has
no such notions (like a numeric one), then a processor can just ignore

> It seems modifiers are set of boolean flags (positive "year" or negative
> "suppress-author") in citeproc.el, set of values in natbib, and a kind
> of hierarchy in org-cite. From my point of view, set of constrains
> (flags) is the most general variant in this list.

I think that's right, and is how it's represented in a GUI app like
Zotero. But that's not so convenient in a plain text format.

But it's a good way to explain the differences.

> > I think it's probably a good idea to add "year" to the latex processors too.
> I agree. Negations are more confusing when an author needs just year.

We might as well do that then, along with bibentry/fullcite.


> I am familiar with bst language used by BibTeX and I am surprised that
> initials instead of full names are not enforced by CSL styles.

I'm not following here. Certainly one can specify initialization rules
in a CSL style.

WDYM by "enforced"?

> Emphasis and bold markers may appear in plain text export. Behavior of styles 
> is
> not uniform in respect to adding (unbreakable?) space before citation.

Sorry; not following here again. Isn't the space before a citation
determined by the user?


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