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Re: Org, Hyperbole, and eev

From: Robert Weiner
Subject: Re: Org, Hyperbole, and eev
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 12:28:51 -0400

Hi Eduardo:

I really think that you are confused in saying that Hyperbole and Org are hacker-unfriendly.  Yes, they are targeted at users who don't have to understand the programming, but if you do understand Lisp programming well, the interactive features are available as Lisp functions in almost all cases, so you simply have to dive in, find the functions you want and utilize or change them.

In fact, Hyperbole offers 'action implicit buttons' that utilize angle-bracket syntax to turn any Lisp function (or hyperbole button type call or variable reference) into a hyperbutton that runs the function with arguments or displays the variable, e.g.  <find-file "~/.org/my-org-file.org">.

With Hyperbole, much of the behavior is factored into class-like libraries with the 'methods' alphabetized and separated into public and private groupings.  Now some of this code is complex in order to handle many contexts and make things simple to the user but that is a matter of you understanding this complexity if you want to hack on it.

I'm not sure what else you could ask for in packages.

-- rsw

On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 11:58 AM Eduardo Ochs <eduardoochs@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,

this message is slightly off-topic, and a shameless plug...

Eev can do many things that Org and Hyperbole and do, but it makes
very little sense to people who can play the role of "users" well, in
the sense of people who can "use" Emacs packages without looking at
the elisp source and hacking it, i.e.: reading the source of the
package, inspecting and understanding its data structures, and
creating sexps that call the package's functions directly...

Eev still has a couple of parts whose data structures are hard to
inspect. I don't regard these parts as "real" bugs, but I do regard
them as hugely embarassing - and I have just fixed one of them:
`find-here-links', that is explained in this section of the main


and in this other tutorial:


The way to run `find-here-links' in debug mode is explained here,


in the second part of the ";;; Commentary:" at the top - look for
"Debug mode".

As I mentioned in the other thread


and in these pages,


I find Org and Hyperbole difficult mainly because they are
hacker-unfriendly. It _may be_ that some of the people who said that
they find Org very hard in this thread


would also benefit from a bit more of hacker-friendliness... and so it
would be great if more ideas could flow between Org, eev, and Hyperbole.

  Cheers and sorry the noise =P,
    Eduardo Ochs

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