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Re: [PATCH] oc-csl: New custom option `org-cite-csl-sentence-case-bibtex


From: András Simonyi
Subject: Re: [PATCH] oc-csl: New custom option `org-cite-csl-sentence-case-bibtex-titles'
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2024 11:27:14 +0200

Dear Ihor and Max,

thanks for the feedback and apologies for responding that late.

On Wed, 15 May 2024 at 13:48, Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is it possible to keep title formatting from .bib files till it becomes
> known that specific style requires sentence case for particular entry
> type? I had a hope that it might alleviate the issue and to make things
> working out of the box for more users.

The problem is that many (maybe most) CSL styles simply assume that
titles are in sentence-case in the input without
making this explicit. The APA citation style is a prominent example:
the APA guidelines require sentence-case titles but
AFAICS the standard CSL implementations do not encode this explicitly.
Of course it could be checked whether
a CSL style contains explicit instructions about how to format titles
and skip  sentence-case conversion of input for those but this
probably would not
solve the problems of users who do not want the conversion at all.

> > I'm a bit unsure about naming the option:
> > Perhaps `org-cite-csl-sentence-case-bibtex-titles-without-langid'
>
> A variant: org-cite-csl-bibtex-title-to-sentence-case

thanks, in the attached patch I went with (a slightly modified version of) this.

> Does it means that you added one more argument to `citeproc-create' and
> that consistent Org and citeproc-el versions must be used?

no, at least in the sense that this argument has been there since 2021.

> It may be tricky to preserve
> backward-forward compatibility on this step, but it should make further
> changes easier. It may be reasonable to explicitly add version of
> "protocol" to the property list, so that citeproc-el may decide if error
> should be signaled in the case of serious version difference.

although I don't think backward compatibility could be a problem in
that particular case, in the future
a mechanism like this  might be useful, so I plan to implement it,
thanks for the suggestion.

> It is not clear for me why `org-cite-csl-sentence-case-bibtex-titles' is
> a part of Org, not of citeproc-el. The only thing that Org can do is to
> pass it to citeproc-el. It is not configurable per .org file and likely
> it should not be. From my point of view it might be more suitable per
> .bib file. Anyway it is almost unrelated to Org.

citeproc-el doesn't have customizable user options by design because
it was conceived as a relatively low level
rendering library. Also, it's used by several user-facing packages by
now in addition to Org (org-ref, citar etc.) so
I think it would be both confusing and difficult to try to keep this
type of customizations in the library.

> On Mon, 17 Jun 2024 at 13:37, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> wrote:

> > > Also, it would be nice to point out the CSL and Bibtex have different> > 
> > > > conventions for the title field.

I added a few words about this now both in the docstring and in the
ORG-NEWS entry -- I've attached
the updated patch.

best wishes,
András

Attachment: 0001-oc-csl-New-custom-option-org-cite-csl-bibtex-titles-.patch
Description: Text Data


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