Re: [Enigma-devel] Scottish Gaelic translation

[Fòram na Gàidhlig]

Oh, I see. Thanks for the explanation :)


20/02/2014 13:39, sgrìobh Erich Schubert:
> Hello,
> No, the Debian/Ubuntu packages contain distribution specific changes
> that aren't committed to trunk.
> (And I don't have write access to enigma trunk anyway; I'm happy with
> sharing the one patch a year by email.)
>
> In particular the language choosing bug is only a "hotfix", a hack
> that needs to be solved more cleanly.
> It might break Windows when applied, so it's not ready for trunk.
>
> Regards,
> Erich
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Fòram na Gàidhlig
> <address@hidden> wrote:
> > Sorry, something must have been wrong in the settings so this didn't go to
> > the list.
> >
> > First of all, thank you for your fast reply.
> >
> > I do have a partner in crime who could take over if I get run over by a bus.
> > Check his homepage: http://www.igaidhlig.net/
> >
> > If we should be unable to support the translation anymore, say 20 years in
> > the future, you could always remove the translation then. Also, a bomb might
> > drop on the key developers and stop all improvements to the code, so let's
> > just give up coding anything for this game right now, shall we?
> >
> > Frankly, this is the first time I have run into this kind of rejection from
> > a FOSS project. Or should I use a stronger word, be somewhat dramatic and
> > say discrimination?
> >
> > I apologize for my sarcasm, but I didn't expect to have to tilt at windmills
> > for this - minority languages have to tilt at too many of them as it is. I
> > also know that you meant no offense, but with issues like this it is hard
> > for me to keep my cool. I guess most majority language speakers have no idea
> > what it feels like, and why should they ;)
> >
> >
> > As to the problem with switching languages, I built this from trunk today:
> >
> > svn://svn.code.sf.net/p/enigma-game/source/trunk
> >
> > Shouldn't the fixes that have been done for the latest packages also be in
> > trunk?
> >
> >
> >
> > 20/02/2014 10:21, sgrìobh Erich Schubert:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > > Please send your mail to the list, if you want everybody to read it...
> > >
> > > I don't doubt that you can translate it.
> > > The concern is that in 2 years, for some future version of enigma, you
> > > may be gone, and nobody updates the translation anymore.
> > > It's about the *pool size* of possible translators. You may be very
> > > dedicated, but who is your backup?
> > >
> > > Switching languages on Linux often does not work (see the bug reports
> > > in Debian, Ubuntu; fixed in the latest package, as well as mails here
> > > on the list this year).
> > > The reason is that the locales are usually named "de_DE.UTF-8" on
> > > Linux, and the UI tries to choose "de_DE", which would be the old,
> > > non-UTF-8-locale (and may not be available on the system at all).
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Erich
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Fòram na Gàidhlig
> > > <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > > Well, although it does help to have a big translation team, the success
> > > > of a
> > > > translation does not depend on the number of its speakers, but on the
> > > > dedication of its translators. If you dont think I can do it, have a look
> > > > at
> > > > my portfolio ;)
> > > >
> > > > http://www.foramnagaidhlig.net/index.php?sid=&page=148
> > > >
> > > > I translated all those games except for Freeciv and Scrabble 3D, and I
>
> > > > have
> > > > a few more projects in the works that are waiting for release.
> > > >
> > > > The most important thing is to get the interface done, then I will slowly
> > > > work my way through the levels. On OpenTTD, they have a minimum of
> > > > phrases
> > > > that need to be done before a translation is officially included. Maybe
> > > > this
> > > > would be a better criterion than the number of speakers? With Enigma, the
> > > > difficulty with that is at the moment that the language data are in a
> > > > source
> > > > code file rather than a config file, so translators of languages that
> > > > aren't
> > > > official included need to be able to compile the project before they can
> > >
> > >
> > > > test their translation.
> > > >
> > > > I have compiled in Ubuntu from trunk, but changing to a different
> > > > language
> > > > does not work. The setting changes in the options menu and is remembered,
> > > > but the interface language stays in English. Is this a new bug you're
> > > > struggling with?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If puzzles contain puns, the best thing to go would be to include a
> > > > comment
> > > > in the .pot file for the translators. When translators know, they can get
> > > > creative. If it doesn't work in their language, they can leave it in
> > > > English. The existence of one untranslatable level shouldn't keep us from
> > > > translating all the rest.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 20/02/2014 08:17, sgrìobh Erich Schubert:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > > Maybe such languages can be distributed as add-on packages?
> > > > > Shouldn't be much more than a flag and the translation file; albeit it
> > > > > might be tricky to get gettext to find the file then.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, this would allow translations for smaller languages to be
> > > > > asynchronously updated (or not updated). The web site could then list
>
> > > > > them per version; and it would allow a translator to step up and
> > > > > contribute a translation later.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also note that translations of Enigma sometimes cannot or should not
> > > > > be made automatically. There are some puzzles based on language;
> > > > > translating them will make the level unsolvable, unfortunately. See
> > > > > "the document" in Enigma I for an example. (Spoilers on the problem:
> > > > > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=546795 )
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not sure how to best handle such cases. Mark the level
> > > > > untranslatable explicitly / require the translation to be done
> > > > > manually inside the level file?
> > > > > (I havn't checked if this problem has been addressed for this
> > > > > particular level already.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Speaking of translations; the enigma.desktop file (Freedesktop menu
> > > > > entry for Linux systems) should also be translated:
> > > > > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=667656
> > > > >
> > > > > There are tools that will include the .desktop strings in the
> > > > > translation data and update the .desktop at compile time with the
> > > > > translations. This is why I did not want to manually include single
> > > > > translations in the .desktop file, when the process should be
> > > > > automated for translator convenience.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Erich
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 10:59 PM, Andreas Lochmann
> > > > > <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thank you for your support.
> > > > > > But I have to admit that I'm sceptical.
> > > > > > Let me explain:
> > > > > > The language with the least number of native
> > > > > > speakers we currently support is Belarussian
> > > > > > with approximately 3,700,000 speakers.
> > > > > > If the numbers in Wikipedia are correct,
> > > > > > Scottish Gaelic is natively spoken by 63,000
> > > > > > people, right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The problem is not in the number of speakers.
> > > > > > Actually, the problem is in the number of
> > > > > > potential translators. In contrast to most
> > > > > > other projects, Enigma's translations are vast
> > > > > > and ever-growing, as the number of levels
> > > > > > steadily grows. There is no end on the effort.
> > > > > > In languages with many speakers, there are
> > > > > > many people who can continue with the
> > > > > > translation in case the original translator
> > > > > > cannot continue her work. In Scottish Gaelic,
> > > > > > you and maybe Yannis will be the only ones
> > > > > > who can do the translation. It will be a task
> > > > > > for a life-time for you. Are you really willing
> > > > > > to accept this burden?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Andreas
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (I wanted to use a Gaelic "best regards",
> > > > > > but Google Translator does not support
> > > > > > it ... what is it in Scottish Gaelic? :-)  )
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am 17.02.2014 23:33, schrieb Fòram na Gàidhlig:
> > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'd like to start working my way through translating this excellent
>
> > > > > > > game into Scottish Gaelic :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The locale is gd or gd_GB, encoding UTF-8.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have already sent a request to be added to the Transifex project.
>
> > > > > > > The flag would usually be the Scottish flag, but we will have a
> > > > > > > problem there if somebody should want to translate the game into Scots
> > > > > > > in the future, because it's the same flag (Scotland is a multilingual
> > >
> > >
> > > > > > > country). We could use this one though:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://labspace.open.ac.uk/file.php/7437/!via/oucontent/course/3639/gaelic_1_flag.jpg
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > which is the symbol of the Gaelic community in Nova Scotia.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > GunChleoc
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> >
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